Hypothetical about abortion  

redmustang91 58M  
8981 posts
3/7/2006 9:48 am

Last Read:
3/9/2006 1:00 pm

Hypothetical about abortion


Abortions are tragic even if I support the right of women to abort. But consider this hypothetical.

Life does begin at conception, and there is no magic to the three trimester approach of Roe v. Wade. Science and medicine have progressed since the seventies and a fetus at 26 weeks may survive outside the womb to become a normal child.

Should a woman have the right to terminate a pregnancy or kill a fetus, if the fetus could survive, become a normal productive citizen, and could be adopted by a fine loving family that would raise that child? I am not so sure.

Assume the normal delivery would be no more hazardous than the abortion to the woman or fetus.

Why terminate? So the woman can sleep without wondering if the other family did a good job of raising "her" child? No matter how substandard the adopting family, they are probably treating the fetus better than the woman who wants to terminate its life! Talk about "dog in the manger"!

I think we should allow prospective adoptive parents to buy the fetus. If the pregnant woman could sell her fetus she would give it economic value and not be as likely to terminate it. She makes some money, the couple gets a baby, one less abortion, and society gets a kid in a home where the baby is wanted. Baby selling may sound bad, but baby killing sounds worse!

Most of the comments below do not consider the terms of the above hypothetical. If you change the facts, you should change the conclusion.

rm_Bct2Esi 52M/52F
1375 posts
3/7/2006 11:01 am

This seems like a good idea. Let me see if I understand this, if a woman doesn't want the fetus then the adoptive parents buy this baby, its put in an incubator on tubes, life support ect. Until its ready to go home with his/her parents? So who is giong to pay for this babies hospital coverage? The new parents? or US?

I have two premie cousins and with this early birth, there can be complications for the rest of this childs life. Who is going to pay for these medical or hospital visits? Does it also fall on the new parents responsiblity or is it up to US?

hugs and smiles


rm_Methos5059 38M
3 posts
3/7/2006 11:20 am

Here's another case of not looking at the bigger picture when making a suggestion. Sure in a perfect world there would be no adoptions and all kids would be taken by parents that want them. However, every year in America there is are an estimated 1.4 million abortions. There are also 500,000 children waiting to be adopted. With so many children waiting to be adopted and not be able to find homes, what do you think would happen to the 1.4 million that would be coming in per year from making abortions illegal as the pro life people want. I know that's not exactly what you are suggesting but it is close. We live in a world of 6.5 billion people. We also live in a world of limited resources. So with an estimated 46 million abortions worldwide per year. How long do you think it would take to completely overpopulate the world by banning abortions. It may not be the best option and i'm sure no one considers abortion a good thing. It is necessary. Just my opinion.


SilkenKiera 39F  

3/7/2006 11:43 am

In a perfect world where our Child Services can place all of the children into permanent loving homes your hypothetical would in other words have creditability. Lets also assume while we are at it that all of these placed kids will be in loving, safe, productive, healthy homes. Are you starting to see my point? In a court system that just convicted a women who adopted 36 children in her lifetime to beat and tourture, and another women who adopted and abused 12 children by locking them in 3x3 cages each night and made them eat from dog bowls, or how about the story of David "A Child Called it"

People with your opinions only see one side of the picture. All senarios above were cases where the abuse was repeatedly reported by many individuals. Its not that DCS didn't care, its that they couldn't handle the complaints. It takes several weeks to even try to follow up with the complaint. I understand opinions, and I'm always down for a good debate, but please for God sake do your homework. Men that pop up with these one sided "ITS WRONG NO MATTER WHAT" really irk me. How do you know some girl that you were with hasn't had one?


MissAnnThrope 57F
11488 posts
3/7/2006 11:48 am

You know very well most abortions are before the 26th week, when the fetus isn't viable. Late term abortions are illegal in most places, except when the mother's life is in danger. There are also rare cases where a child is born with just a brain stem, no brain. There was a case a few years ago where the parents wanted to let such a child die and they were forced to keep it alive on life support, at great expense to themselves. It still died after two weeks.

Science has also evolved to the point where we can tell if something is radically wrong with a fetus. I agree with late term abortion in those cases too, if the mother wants one. Even some Catholic scholars agree with abortion in that case, as while the child is a human being, it is not a human person capable of reason and emotion.

There are women who do sell their babies. Legally and illegally. Legally, by working as a surrogate mother. OK, with new advances in science, it doesn't have to be her egg. However, she is still carrying it, which will cause most women to consider it their own. Illegally in the case of private adoptions. I have no problem with that, but of course, non-profits do and the religious right does also, as you're not supposed to profit using your body in any way, shape or form. It puts a value on human life in their opinion.

Look, if women could get their prescriptions for Plan B filled in this country without a fight from pharmacists, abortion would be even rarer than it is. Contrary to what people believe, it prevents ovulation or fertilization. It isn't a form of abortion. It's a high dose of hormones. Women who can't take the pill on a daily bases because of side effects can take Plan B safely. By the thinking of the religious right, the IUD should be illegal too, as it kills and/or damages sperm and if a healthy sperm gets through to the egg, it also makes the uterine wall an unfriendly place for the fertilized egg to implant. Those who consider women nothing but baby machines are against anything that won't allow an egg to implant to the wall, calling that abortion. However, not all fertilized eggs will implant even with no birth control used.

Mishaps happen. Women also get . Women don't want to be pregnant, for a variety of reasons. Our bodies, our choice. Birth control doesn't always work. Not all women want to wait until the 14th week, to see if they're going to miscarry naturally. A number of doctors do tell women to not even tell anyone they're pregnant until that point, as 75% of miscarriages occur during that time.

You know, it's said that if men were able to get pregnant, there would be no argument about abortions. They would be legal and they would be free for all. But men aren't the ones who have to deal with having to change their lifestyles and diets, swollen legs and feet, gestational diabetes, high blood pressure, violent mood swings, morning sickness, full labor, post partum depression, bleeding for six weeks after giving birth, sore, swollen, tender nipples from nursing, the loss of job or status at work for giving birth, etc.

In a nutshell, I cannot consider a fetus that cannot live outside the womb a viable life. To use the words of certain Catholic scholars, it might be a human being, but it's not a human person.


rm_sexy40islady 58F
148 posts
3/7/2006 11:48 am

A a victim of with a resulting pregnancy, I thank God that abortion is legal and have absoultely no regrets.


slightly_sexy8 39F
314 posts
3/7/2006 11:56 am

i am sure there are more reasons than being able to sleep at night as why abortions are chosen as a solution to an unwanted pregancy. my understanding is that women choose abortions for a variety of reasons - like they have had all the children they want or can afford, they are too young, the father has vanished or the relationship has ended,it was a one-night stand or they still might be at school with their whole life ahead of them. i think adoption is a wonderful thing but it takes a very strong woman to bear a child and give it up. i would think most just wouldn't be able to.

being able to sell the fetus, as if many women would actually be able to do this, sounds like you have a slightly skewed idea of what makes women tick. this also opens the door to people choosing fetus growing as an occupation which would only add another problem altogether.

i would think plowing much more into education about birth control would be a much more sensible solution.


redmustang91 58M  
8929 posts
3/7/2006 12:12 pm

I don't think the amount offered for a healthy kid would be enough for most women to choose fetus growing as an occupation. Would you take $8,000 for eight months of pregnancy? As for , how is that the child's fault? I am not in favor of making abortions illegal at any age. I am in favor of changing the incentives to allow well screened couples with no kids to pay for a private adoption and thereby save a fetus. To me the convenience abortion is not a good enough reason. A defective brain or spinal problem of a serious nature is different. Having all the kids you can afford to me is not a good enough reason to abort. Instead I would say find someone who wants a kid and deserves one. I favor plan B and all forms of birth control and financial aid for pregnant women. But I also think abortion is a tragedy and Dems need to get in touch with that reality if they want to start winning elections rather than lose them. As a male I do not plan to dictate to women what they must do. But I do have an opinion. Since when do only those with one set of sex organs get to vote? Did men lose the suffrage right sometime and I did not notice? Feminists should not approve of gender criteria for political power...


redmustang91 58M  
8929 posts
3/7/2006 12:18 pm

Under most surrogate deals the adopting parents pay for any extra medical costs for premature babies as I understand the contracts. If conservatives want to encourage fewer abortions they could offer money, healthcare and assistance to those having the kid rather than terminate the pregnancy. I also favor allowing people to sell one kidney, their dead body and paying people for organ transplants. In a capitalist country if you want more of something you make it legal to sell it!


redmustang91 58M  
8929 posts
3/7/2006 3:54 pm

Silken, you completely misunderstand me. I have supported pro-choice for ever. I am a liberal Democrat. I am somewhat a feminist. The fact that some adoptive parents or foster parents are monsters does not invalidate adoption. Nor does the large numbers of unwanted kids address my hypothetical. If there is a loving family ready to take the kid, why not have it adopted than terminated? Until that point is discussed and good enough reasons provided, those who support a woman's right to choose will not convince those who feel terminating or ending a fetus' life is the right choice, even if a legal one. I hope abortion will be legal and rare!


MissAnnThrope 57F
11488 posts
3/8/2006 3:28 am

red, in the case of , how is it the mother's fault? Have you ever volunteered to help women across picket lines, only to have the religious right try to show truly disgusting and untruthful propaganda to a 14 year old who lost her virginity to and then finds out she's pregnant? I have. Do you really want to adopt a child who has the genes of a ? Why should the woman be violated twice? being the first violation and an unwanted pregnancy the second. Now, if you're by a close family member, such as your father or brother, we are talking birth defects galore. There is a reason you're not allowed to marry members of your family and it doesn't have to do with religion. The bible is full of righteous incest. It's because of the severe retardation and other problems that result.

The world is overpopulated. I don't think abortion should just be legal, but I think poor women should have free access to it. There are lots of babies that are going unadopted and if you're not a baby, forget adoption and hello foster homes. It isn't the fact that there aren't enough babies to adopt. It's the fact that there aren't as many white babies to adopt, as white, middle class women are the ones most likely to have an abortion, as they can afford it. Trust me when I say that most of the people who scream about it are talking about white kids. Which is one of the reasons Romanian orphans were so popular for a while. Yet black and hispanic babies go unadopted.

Part of the problem with that is, the way state and city laws are written. I've been told by someone who works in the industry, white families in NYC are not allowed to adopt babies who aren't white, as they feel if they adopt a minority baby, that child will grow up without any sort of cultural heritage. So, couples who would love to adopt are on waiting lists, until a child that matches their ethnic background is available.

Then as far as private adoption goes, it is possible that wannabe parents who are looking were turned down by traditional adoption agencies for a variety of reasons, including psychological instability. Agencies do a home study to see if you're considered suitable to adopt. Let's face it. Joel Steinberg never could have adopted through traditional means. Both those kids were through private adoptions and look at how well that turned out. Granted, it was an exceptional case, but they were turned down by traditional adoption agencies.

But you know, if it bothers you that badly, you can pack up and head for South Dakota... *ducks*


mrgoose69 58M

3/8/2006 7:36 pm

I wonder if some enterprising women would be encouraged to sell their fetus/baby for financial gains.


redmustang91 58M  
8929 posts
3/9/2006 8:15 am

goose, some would but so what if the baby is adopted into a loving home? Better bught and happy or not and terminated?


rm_Methos5059 38M
3 posts
3/9/2006 10:00 am

And again there are so many children up for adoption that can't find homes right now. This would only compound the problem


redmustang91 58M  
8929 posts
3/9/2006 12:55 pm

How does having one kid adopted by a loving family compound the problem of those others not adopted? MY hypothetical was a loving family had arranged to adopt the kid! Quit ignoring my set of facts! Read and consider the facts as posed. Go write your own hypothetical if you don't want to address mine!


redmustang91 58M  
8929 posts
3/9/2006 1:00 pm

I do not want to outlaw abortions! I do not want to make getting abortions more difficult! I am simply saying if there is an alternative to have a 26 week old fetus adopted, I would like to see private charity or gov't encourage that outcome with money, support, aid, etc.! With carrots and not sticks! Why is that concept even controversial? I would like to see more government aid for all families with young kids. Including universal child medical coverage and fee immunizations.


redmustang91 58M  
8929 posts
3/9/2006 1:00 pm

Free immunizations!


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