Pharaoh and libertarian free will  

zaitzeff1234 57M
1 posts
2/7/2006 12:14 pm

Last Read:
3/5/2006 9:27 pm

Pharaoh and libertarian free will


In the first place, the Bible (generally speaking) portrays God as being the cause of human events and choices. We see this not just in Exodus 4:21 and subsequent (re Pharaoh hardening his heart) but also in Genesis 50, in which Joseph attributes to God the actions of his brothers in bringing him to Egypt.

Now, if God had said, "I will harden Pharaoh's heart and he will not let the children of Isreal go," could Pharaoh have done otherwise?

What say you, o man who presumably has studied all these questions and thought about them for years?

And, if the answer is "No, Pharaoh could not have done otherwise," where then is your vaunted "libertarian" free will? You have it but Pharaoh lacked it? Pharaoh usually had it but lacked it on this occasion on which he was overcome by the power of God to do wickedly?

And if your answer is, "Yes, Pharaoh could have done otherwise than God had foretold," you must reject, not only Augustine's
"compatibilism" but also
1) the idea that God knows the future;
2) the Bible's claim that God predestines men;
3) the Bible's claim that "it"
(presumably salvation) does not depend on the man who wills or runs;
4) the Bible's claim that God sent Joseph to Egypt, for, according to you and your idea of libertarian freedom, God was not causally involved in the brothers of Joseph imprisoning him, selling him into slavery, and God was not causally involved in the Midianites buying him and taking him and selling him as a slave in Egypt! God didn't do any of those things (so the libertarian free will advocate says) and Joseph was wrong to attribute them to God! My, Oh, my; the prophet of God in Genesis 50 is mistaken about what God is and isn't doing; He does not know what God has and hasn't done!

If your prophets like this are so wrong about what God has or has not done, why not trash Augustine altogether? For his "problem" was that he believed and tried to make sense of what the Bible said, something you appear to not be bothered with.

Instead, believe the Bible and say with Julian of Norwich: "Whatever is done, God does."

RevJoseyWales 69M/66F
14393 posts
5/13/2006 11:20 am

And you were a member of the group "caught by family members" and agreeing with the concept of parents having sex with their children? (post "I caught my stepdad masterbating in my panites") Quote "It's not unusual". You are one sick motherfucker.

"McVeigh had the right idea, wrong address."

"This ain't Dodge City, and you ain't Bill Hickok."


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