........tangled webs  

wickedeasy 66F  
14999 posts
7/23/2006 10:34 am
........tangled webs


ever been called out by someone, caught red handed in a big old fat lie?

i had dinner with a friend last night who, while i was bed bound (lord how i wish i'd actually been bound - that at least would have made it interesting), just disappeared.

now, i'm not expecting folks to come running or even fit me into what i recognize as full schedules. but when she saw my cane, she said, "what happened"? i reminded her of what had occurred and she said, "i had no idea".

at that moment i thought - why the lie? i have an email to her that she answered about it - she clearly knew. i wasn't miffed about her not being around.

so, why the lie?

this is a silly minor thing but there are times when someone lies to you and it isn't of little significance, it's huge - it's intrinsic to your relationship, or to your sense of self or to your ability to trust

so why the lie?

mom once said to me about a cousin in our family - "she can't tell the truth - her life is a web of lies and they form the world she thinks of as hers."

my dad used to say that the expeditious use of hyperbole is not a lie - it's a way to enhance the experience. but that's how long you fought to land the 7' marlin, not did ya even go fishing at all?? right?

i find it difficult to accommodate lying in even the silliest, least important situations. when i got older i realized that saying "i don't know" was acceptable. that was a huge moment for me - realizing that i didn't have to know -
but i try never to lie - altho i did lie yesterday to the guys at the door selling God - i told them God already lived here - it was Her summer home - grins

the questions?

why lie?
why lie when it serves no real purpose?
is there ever a time when a lie is kosher?

You cannot conceive the many without the one.


libgemOH 56M/52F

7/23/2006 10:49 am

I think the one thing it's ok to lie about, ok, maybe just a little fib, or perhaps a lie of omission, is when telling the truth would hurt someone. I try to think of others before blurting things out, don't always succeed though! That's why my mouth is a perfect 8 1/2, so my foot fits!!!

But I know what you are talking about, those really stupid lies that just don't seem to matter, but really do matter!

And yes, you lied about God's summer home! She actually lives here this summer!! -B


wickedeasy replies on 7/23/2006 11:43 am:
well i;m glad She's somewhere fun for Her vacation - grins

but as to hurting feelings - ommission seems to be my preference - saw the god awful ugliest child the other day at my family shelter and the mom was beaming as i picked him up to hold him. i cooed and cooed - and then just thanked her for sharing him with me - that worked and i never once had to lie

meerkittykat 42F

7/23/2006 10:58 am

There's different reasons we lie....

We lie because of shame; survival; fear; cowardice; anger and evil.

Purpose is perspective too--rationally, we all know there is no good purpose in lying, but tell that to the child who says "no, I don't have any money" to the schoolyard bully or the battered woman who says "I love you honey" to the man who will beat her otherwise.

I realize these are extreme cases, but the human psyche will often do what it needs to protect itself.

Now...for the people who lie out of evil...to manipulate others and know they're doing it. Those are the ones to avoid. But I think most of us are good people and lies are moments of weakness. Eventually one learns and doesn't repeat the mistake. Continued weakness is a sign for help.

Lying is never good....but hard to practice, even for the most moral of us. The bigger question is; do we learn from our transgressions?


wickedeasy replies on 7/23/2006 11:45 am:
your examples hit home

and the question of survival is relative isn't it? and could apply almsot across the board depending on the person adn their needs

thanks for stopping by

warmandsexy52 64M
13164 posts
7/23/2006 11:31 am

There are all sorts of lies and I must admit that I find lying very hard. But there are times when the truth is so devastating, so hurtful, that lying becomes the lesser of two evils.

But such times are rare.

warm xx


wickedeasy replies on 7/23/2006 11:48 am:
i pimped you out on a bulletin board - hope you don't mind

the times that a lie is required for survival or to protect another are, of course, exceptions

in general, i guess i just don't see the point

hugs

ButteryDelight 58F

7/23/2006 6:11 pm

I have lied WE. As a survival instinct. I lied when I told my father I didn't know where his booze was. And later I lied to a step father who was sexually abusing me by telling him I was having my monthly.

At the present, I try very very hard not to lie. I have told some white lies by saying I liked so and sos new dress when I absolutely hated it. Now, I have learned to say something like.."Do you like the dress"? If she say yes, and she usually does, I say "I am fine with you wearing it".

As for your friend, maybe she is busy and forgot you already told her by sending her an email? Of course that might mean it was not important to her enough for her to remember it. Hmmm.

Perhaps you could ask her? Maybe say something along the lines of, I thought I sent you an email telling you about my back?

Buttery Delight


wickedeasy replies on 7/24/2006 7:15 am:
you see, it didn't bother me that she didn't come around - folks are busy - i jsut wondered why bother with a lie

i have no need to ask her - i think it would only shame her and that isn't anything i want to do

i'm sorry you had to lie for such terrible reasons - to me that means it wasn't so much a lie - it was the only way you could survive -

i would lie to survive, to protect my child

just seems silly to lie about something of little consequence and wrong to lie for self aggrandisement - sighs

PurplePeach72 44F  
9199 posts
7/23/2006 7:36 pm

It is amazing the way people think. It is assumed that I am some kind of Ace of Lairs (see the movie Lair Lair) in my profession. The truth is, I do so well by telling the truth or not saying anything when the truth is bad. I have said for a long time just because something is true doesn't mean you should say it. I think a lot of people lie because they think they have to say something. Take your friend for example. She knew what had happened. She had not said or done anything. She felt like she had to say something, that an explanation was in order, so instead of saying nothing, or asking how you were doing now, she lied. We learn as children the "need" to lie very early in life. We realize that the truth gets us in trouble. The cookie, the broken window, the undone homework, the missed curfew, etc. Then in the grownup world we lie to save our jobs or get ahead, to get a date, to get laid. Most of the time these things come back to bite us, but very often they work at the moment, and too many people live in the moment, totally removed from the past or the future. Having been deeply hurt by lies I have an extreme dislike for them. The sad thing is the ones that hurt me the most, where ones that I knew the truth too, and if the truth had been told when I asked, there would not have been near as much weeping and wailing later and the trust would not have been so damaged.
Is there every a time to lie. Yes, but I think those times are few and far between, and they are not for face saving or to avoid social embarrassment.
Sorry to have rambled on so, you just got me going.
steve

colcouple4f00

Kisses,
LA


wickedeasy replies on 7/24/2006 7:19 am:
great ramble - and true

i think tht the idea of consequence is something people learn - if it didn't exist, the world would be in constant chaos - the need to look at how your words or actions impacat others is part of the societal strucutre - and you are right - lying is one of those actions that can have enormous consequences for a singl emoment of getting by

thanks - great post

clitalicious67 49F

7/23/2006 7:38 pm

People lie to sooth their own needs...unfortunately the fall out from those lies usually affects others... hugs C~


wickedeasy replies on 7/24/2006 7:20 am:
amen to that

angelofmercy5 58F
17881 posts
7/24/2006 2:10 am

The comments here are wonderful. I had to laugh at your "little lie" about God's vacation home! But I do agree that there are times that the most moral of us all lie for one reason or the other. But it is hard to live a lie......and sometimes the consequences are alot worse than the truth. Great post.


wickedeasy replies on 7/24/2006 7:24 am:
grins at angel - 'specially since she's over at lib's place - damn - caught out

that's the issue isn't it - the consequences

hugs

MOfunNOWWOW 55F

7/24/2006 6:36 am

I don't like lies and really like the way your mom put things in words for "the compulsive liar"

Once I heard Billy Graham say that we all lie continaully even to ourselves and he felt that if he went a day with telling only three lies he had struggled to accomplish that feat.

I believe this, I have heard myself say I am honest to a fault but then answer my phone to a solicitor and say I am not home. Tell my children no because we can't afford it when I don't feel it is worthy of the budget yet we can, or tell someone thier hair looks good that way when I don't for it. So truthfully I am a liar that struggles to be honest continually. Maybe not compulsive and usually honest but certainly not to a fault.

The lie you were told hurt worse yes and my heart hurts when I am told those type. (((hugs for your heart)))

As per your questions...tough questions when we are talking truth so
I will answer in your words...I don't know. {=}


MOMO
just a squirrel trying to get a nut


wickedeasy replies on 7/24/2006 7:31 am:
this resonates - i believe we all are liars trying to be truthful

i was training folks on cultural diversity one day - and someone said "i don't have a bigoted bone in my body"

i said then, and it's true to this day, "i am a bigot, trying very hard everyday to not be" - the fact is we all have preconceived notions, fears, etc., etc. and saying stuff like the color of your skin means nothing to me - well shame on you - it means a whole helluva lot to the person wearing that skin.

this is the core of it really - the why's and the reasons - nods

thanks Mo

MaggiesWishes 59F

7/24/2006 7:07 am

I'm too old and feeble of mind to try to lie out of the good of someone else. Don't ask me if you really want to know, cause I will tell you the "upfront" and you may not like the answer.

The truth should come with a "warning lable".

Love the comments! Great post.
A lesson we often don't learn until later in life and then, some ... just can't face their own face, so the lies are easy for them.
AND you know who you are.

Hi honey! I'm home!
Warm huggies 2ya
Let's chat soon!


wickedeasy replies on 7/24/2006 9:31 am:
hey there mags

good time???

home all day so will try you later - smooches

and telling it like it is is just fine with me Mags - the whole around the barn thing takes up too much time anyway

rm_shannee2006 52F
3355 posts
7/24/2006 7:51 am

I have a couple friends here in Maine who have an annoying habit of calling me up and before I can get a word in edgewise, they are telling me their latest drama and never take a breath for me to tell them I can't talk...and they ignore my telling them that I can't talk when I do finally get a chance to say anything. My paternal grandmother does the same thing. I have IM friends who do that too. In each case, they take up my time...a lengthy amount of time doing that.

The thing about people like this is that they are emotionally immature. They can't handle being told that they have been rude and self centered. I crushes their feelings to tell them this. You might wonder why I have them in my life...I have them in my life because I accept people just as they are, because I'm gentle and because when I'm feeling gregarious, I enjoy their company. When I'm feeling vulnerable like I have been lately, I try to hide from them because I have nothing to give and I feel battered and bruised by their taking from me without asking.

There are times when I get caught on the phone because I pick it up without thinking first...and I frankly lie to get off the phone.

It goes against my grain to do that...but I do it.

Yup...this juiciness is from me....

S


wickedeasy replies on 7/24/2006 9:50 am:
nods

it appears we all lie - bunch of no goodniks that we are - grins

but it also seems that we are all conscious of it - and that's part of controlling it isn't it?

i like the comment about BIlly Graham - see above - and i've done a wee test today, trying to see how many times i lie - without even giving it a thought

so far - and it's only noon - i've lived 5 times - silly stupid little things - my neighbor asked me if i had time to take her kids -i do, but i said no, (they are demons from hell those children), another time on the phone with my PT - i said i'd done my exercises when to be honest - i haven't

silly things - ways to circumvent a conflict or whatever - it's been interesting - i'll let you know how I've done by 5 PM - eek

redmustang91 57M  
8571 posts
7/24/2006 11:25 am

Lying to avoid hurt feelings is pretty standard "white lie". What about lying to improve a story so it is funnier? I know someone who is a master at this skill. I have heard the same story grow bigger and funnier with each new version, and I was at the event that started the story! I call this poetic lying or lying for dramatic effect! Because I believe life can use more entertainment, I approve of this form of lying!


wickedeasy replies on 7/24/2006 1:01 pm:
as my dad said the use of expeditious hyperbole is not a lie - it's an art form

grins

MaggiesWishes 59F

7/24/2006 11:35 am

OK, I admit it. I lie to the "telemarketers".
I make them hold on while I go and get whoever they want.
I just leave the phone and let them figure it out. AT least the computer knows it called me and I'm routed to the end of the list.
It can be habit forming that way ... I'm use to it now.


wickedeasy replies on 7/24/2006 2:35 pm:
wonders if there is an exemption for lying to telemarketers - seems there should be

Mermaidslut 49F

7/24/2006 11:34 pm

I get emails/phone calls all the time and when soeone asks me about them, I tell them I didn't get them is it a lie? Yes, and No. if I look back in my email inbox, it is there. I may have even read it, or replied to it.. does that mean I remember it? No

I may have gone on to two dozen more emails, and it did not sink in after I found something that made me jump up and respond right away. Or, if I get a call that interupts, I get so easily distracted. I might have just been ready to pick up the phone, and then it is like it never happened because I am so burdened with other tasks that I have forgotten to call a friend. It happens, thats why I make time to go visit my friends as much as possible, cause I know they get busy as well.

Forgive and forget. The only lies worth worring about, are the malicious ones made with intent to hide, or hurt.


wickedeasy replies on 7/28/2006 7:57 am:
yes - ana speaks to intent above - i agree

somethingelse40 74M
14676 posts
7/28/2006 4:36 am

People who can’t cope with their problems should not be allowed to have them. Some of my problems are just visiting, but some have apparently decided to move in. Donations are desperately needed to support my reckless extravagance.


wickedeasy replies on 7/28/2006 7:58 am:
there ya go - the voice of reason

somethingelse40 74M
14676 posts
7/28/2006 1:16 pm

People who can't cope with their problems should not be allowed to fuck with them. Some of my instincts tell me not to follow some of my other instincts. I need more practice in being helpless.


wickedeasy replies on 7/28/2006 2:59 pm:
ah, now surrendering is something i am well versed in

somethingelse40 74M
14676 posts
7/29/2006 1:50 am

It's amazing how many other things people would rather do than surrender.


wickedeasy replies on 7/29/2006 7:49 am:
then they will never know what joy there is to be found in such a simple release of control

somethingelse40 74M
14676 posts
7/29/2006 8:07 am

But how would the universe survive?


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