Where Have All The Real Men Gone?  

travelingintexas 41M
posts
1/15/2006 12:35 pm
Where Have All The Real Men Gone?

Masculinity~

1. The quality or condition of being masculine.
2. Something traditionally considered to be characteristic of a male


I am going to throw out some general statements here. I would be interested to see the reactions that both male and females have to these statements. It should not be assumed these are or are not my beliefs. They are used here to create discussion.

1. Our culture has adopted a strategy that facilitates the feminization of men.
2. Masculinity, with its predilection to adventure, rowdiness, and risk has become a condition to be cured.
3. Consequently, boys are in big trouble. School systems and other organizations have not taken the unique features of masculinity into consideration when designing curriculum or programs.
4. Our culture, intent on emasculating its boys, has produced a huge sense of withdrawal and boredom from its men.
5. As disconcerting as it may be to mothers everywhere, masculinity can only be imparted by masculinity. In other words, a young boy is never really sure he’s become a man until another man, or group of men, tells him so.
6. Sadly, many, if not most, men have abdicated this responsibility.
7. Every man needs a battle for which he can live and die.

Men, do you believe any of these to be true?

Ladies, share your thoughts!


pinkplaytoyz 50F

1/15/2006 3:02 pm

well trav, as the single mother of 15 and 18 year old boys, I have to concur with all but No.7, as I have no way of "feelin it" myself, and therefore, I can't attest to the truth of that statement.


ediesedgewick 57F

1/15/2006 4:51 pm

Since when is adventure, rowdiness and risk a condition to be "cured"? All you need to do is look at who America elected for two terms and you will see how much "masculinity" (I would define it a different way) is embraced. (Sorry I got political--but it seems an obvious endproduct of what our culture is really all about.)


digdug41 49M

1/15/2006 5:17 pm

those are good trav I can I.D. with #2 and 5 #2 because I was a wild ass kid which led me to other things but it was the behavior first that set it off and being a follower #5 I have seen that happen to a few people I know and when they did try to prove they were men it was not a good outcome because of what the examples of men they used to measure against what men really were I just recently had to learn the hard way that a man does what a man has to do when he doesn't want to do it not the other way around.

roaming the cyber streets of blogland


_Safira 53F
11260 posts
1/15/2006 5:57 pm

I have two sons ... They have a wonderful father, who happens to be a fabulous former spouse.

They are outstanding young MEN ... even when I'M the battle they are fighting.

I wouldn't have it any other way!

BOYS ARE COOL ... CHIVALRY SHOULD BE REWARDED--ALWAYS!!!

This is my blog - Comes With Warning Labels. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

RECOMMENDED READING: A F F ... The Only Site For Me?


rm_1hotwahine 63F
21091 posts
1/15/2006 6:04 pm

1. ehhhh..no substance to it, not engaging. Next:
2. change 'cured' to 'tempered'
3. change 'boys' to 'students' and 'masculinity' to 'humanness'
4. WTF Trav - are you reading from some red state handbook or something, lol
5. I don't believe in that as stated but I do think that boys really need male role modeling (I'm a single mom of a boy, btw)
6. I think that the moms tend to be the primary parent, in most (not all) families. How this fits or whether it's good or bad, I'm not sure. I THINK that it needed to be that way when the dad was the wage earner, but things have changed. And in many (not all) cases, I think Dads do need to step up to the parenting plate a little more often
7. To an outside observer, this one sure looks to be true!

Okay, now I'll go read what everyone else wrote.

Yeah, I'm still [blog 1hotwahine]


rm_1hotwahine 63F
21091 posts
1/15/2006 6:09 pm

My cousin, who is of the generation enamoured of not forcing children into traditional gender roles, made sure her sons had dolls and her daughter had trucks. The daughter used her trucks for her imaginary people to go shopping and her sons made monsters out of the dolls.

I love that story.

Yeah, I'm still [blog 1hotwahine]


aascrompn 42M
6444 posts
1/15/2006 6:23 pm

1. Our culture has adopted a strategy that facilitates the feminization of men. True

2. Masculinity, with its predilection to adventure, rowdiness, and risk has become a condition to be cured. True

3. Consequently, boys are in big trouble. School systems and other organizations have not taken the unique features of masculinity into consideration when designing curriculum or programs. False

4. Our culture, intent on emasculating its boys, has produced a huge sense of withdrawal and boredom from its men. True

5. As disconcerting as it may be to mothers everywhere, masculinity can only be imparted by masculinity. In other words, a young boy is never really sure he’s become a man until another man, or group of men, tells him so. False

6. Sadly, many, if not most, men have abdicated this responsibility.
True

7. Every man needs a battle for which he can live and die. False


stormysky312 65F

1/15/2006 6:30 pm

I agree with most of it. Little boys used to play cowboys, they got into fights on the school playground. They hit at each other, wrestled about on the lawn once in awhile one got a bloody nose. Now it is turns into a federal case. Parents and teachers get involved lawsuits are filed, etc. Of course, when they could fight on the school ground or in their yards, I never heard of anyone getting a rifle or shotgun and blowing away their classmates. Maybe we should let boys be boys and men be men.


rm_goddess1946 106F
13518 posts
1/15/2006 7:29 pm

a comment about # 5.

Men DO need to be in the company of and know the support of
other men that they respect to be able to grow into strong
men. Many cultures teach this and the mentors are appointed
and honored...macho wanna be crap has nothing do do with what
I am saying. When a man fully understands the power of his
masculine, he is free to play in the world of the feminine and
he is enhanced..not threatened...and he never forgets who he
REALLY is...and then and only then can he unforgetably penetrate
and fully love she who has an authentically developed feminine
heart.

Just a little food for thought.............
If you really want to be happy, nobody can stop you...
{=}


MaggiesWishes 60F

1/15/2006 8:13 pm

I'm so out of the loop here.
Have no males to compare to.


tank_destroyer 52  
8 posts
1/15/2006 8:53 pm

LMAO!!! You look like one of the 'Blues Brothers'!


rm_1hotwahine 63F
21091 posts
1/15/2006 9:46 pm

    Quoting travelingintexas:
    1Hot-

    2. Masculinity, with its predilection to adventure, rowdiness, and risk has become a condition to be cured.

    Change "cured" to tempered? To what end? For what purpose? Does doing this give substance to #1?
Trav - Ok, this is where I was going with it:

When I'm in my Devil's Advocate mindset, I tend to say things like "To men, everything in life is a pissing match." In that cynical frame of mind it seems like a lot of the world's problems are based on two or more men competing it win, conquer or some other extension of pissing the farthest. As a blanket stereotyped prejudiced statement: women tend to solve problems through reconciliation, men through winning or overpowering.

However I do not suggest trying to change our bilogical nature. This is not something to be cured, as we need both types of solutions in life. But I do think that boys should be taught other strategic means of solving problems, such as negotiation, etc. Hence the comment of changing cured to tempered. So no, I don't think it would feed into #1. But that's all I can come up with now because there's a guy on TV that has a great little ass and I am distracted.

Yeah, I'm still [blog 1hotwahine]


rm_1hotwahine 63F
21091 posts
1/15/2006 9:49 pm

    Quoting travelingintexas:
    1Hot-

    2. Masculinity, with its predilection to adventure, rowdiness, and risk has become a condition to be cured.

    Change "cured" to tempered? To what end? For what purpose? Does doing this give substance to #1?
And I bet tank_destroyer thinks so, too.

Yeah, I'm still [blog 1hotwahine]


impish_pixie 54F
6867 posts
1/15/2006 10:16 pm

Wow...where do you get these questions? I have loads of opinion on this subject - just don't feel strong enough to go into it right now. So many "definitions" of a man - and what makes a man a man. So many young men out there who believe that the measure of man is how hard he can hit, how "bad" he can be, how many people are afraid of him. Totally missing the beauty of tenderness, patience, and genuine respect built from friendship.

"Every man needs a battle for which he can live or die."

This statement brings tears to my eyes. Will we never be a society in which every man strives to bring peace, tolerance, respect and dignity to his fellow man? Must we always believe in our arrogance that "our" way is the "only" way and then try to enforce it upon others? Must we always send boys to be killed and sent home in body bags before they're even old enough to drink a beer?

Forgive me...the whole misquided notions of manhood hit me hard tonight. If men in general see their masculinity slipping away due to boredom, then perhaps it's time for men to get off their asses and start visiting the schools, start becoming mentors, become "big brothers", volunteer at the Y' and generally "be" there for all those boys who have been abandoned by the person who's supposed to be the "man" in his life.

One more thing of course....
5. As disconcerting as it may be to mothers everywhere, masculinity can only be imparted by masculinity. In other words, a young boy is never really sure he’s become a man until another man, or group of men, tells him so.

Bullshit. God forbid my son become a man due his father's acknowledgement of his "manhood". You do single mother's a grave disservice with that remark. Many a fine young male has been molded, shaped, cast and fired into a most incredible man by nothing more than the love, determination, sacrifice, blood, sweat and countless tears of a single mother. Doesn't negate the importance of a good male role model - but don't say it can't be done.

Thanks for asking though.

I make mistakes, I am out of control & at times hard to handle. But if you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best. ~Marilyn


onelittlesecret 33M
1579 posts
1/16/2006 12:48 am

I'm what you're talking about Trav...

No wonder everyone thinks I'm a girl.


slidein2meplz 62F
1994 posts
1/16/2006 1:22 am

1. Our culture has adopted a strategy that facilitates the feminization of men. Yes I think it has to an extent.

2. Masculinity, with its predilection to adventure, rowdiness, and risk has become a condition to be cured. Yes, true...seems they are encouraged not to have that mindset and are directed to calmer less rambunctious activities.

3. Consequently, boys are in big trouble. School systems and other organizations have not taken the unique features of masculinity into consideration when designing curriculum or programs. Can't identify with this one.. I have a daughter...and she's 29 now...so it's probably changed a lot. Plus it was a very long time ago that I was in school. So back then for me...boys did boy stuff and girls did girl stuff. I do think boys need help in discovering their masculinity in this day and age. Back in the day... it wasn't an issue so no one thought about it.

4. Our culture, intent on emasculating its boys, has produced a huge sense of withdrawal and boredom from its men. I do think young boys/young men...are "softer" nowadays....and discouraged from being "boys will be boys" sort of mindset.

5. As disconcerting as it may be to mothers everywhere, masculinity can only be imparted by masculinity. In other words, a young boy is never really sure he’s become a man until another man, or group of men, tells him so. I guess I'm old school..in my way of thought...but I agree...it is happening. During ages when they are the most impressionable...I think it's important to have a good strong man for a role model. I think they need the recognition from them in some manner. It's important that they learn how to do "manly" things. but... I am from a different mindset..where masculinity is extremely important to me in a man... I and I see less and less young one's getting that sort of mentoring. But daughters, need that the influence of a good man too...so they know what to look for.

6. Sadly, many, if not most, men have abdicated this responsibility. why is that? I've notice a lack of interest in a father... unless... men nowadays feel like they have to be so careful what they teach them for fear it might be politically incorrect??? I don't know.

7. Every man needs a battle for which he can live and die. Maybe not a battle... but surely I think a man needs a worthy cause..something he can believe in...I don't necessarily think they need to die in order to prove their masculinity..but I do feel they need something to feel vital...to be validated...to know deep down inside that they are a man...and hopefully they are a good man.

~~~ Just me, poppin to say HI! ~~


curious082385 31F
4925 posts
1/16/2006 2:35 am

I think that part of the problem is that our culture is losing sight of how to define a "man". It used to be with prowess in war or hunting. There was a clear line between a boy and a man.
As times change, that line becomes less and less clear. Many boys are being raised now without a father in the home, with no clear guidelines of how to "be a man". They are being taught that strength is the same as detachement, that a display of any emotion other then anger and aggression is weakness.


Sizzle364
(Juan S)
52M
2642 posts
1/16/2006 2:44 am

i fully believe that what Trav is saying is true and there seems to be a few people that just don't get it. There are tons of women that complain about men not being chivalrous for instance anymore, when at one time, if you held a door open for a woman, you ran the risk of her telling you that she could open her own doors. There was the battle for equal pay, equal jobs, which I beleive in, but when it came to..ok, equal...then you can go to the front line in a war, there was a backlash and outrage. There was rude and obscure comments that men would and some still do make to women they don't know, which became at one point and still in various cases a stopgap for men flirting with a woman or trying to start up a conversation for those guys that actually are trying to hook up for whatever reason. Then of course there is the complaint of why don't these guys talk to me, when men are sometimes afraid they are going to get threatened with a harrassment suit or stalking claim, if they make the wrong type of joke or try to be persistent in wooing a particular lady...(yeah, I know...I said wooing, sorry!) The basis of Trav's argument or point, I believe is that in improving our society away from the stupidity or barbaricness that most of us, men and women can agree needed to be changed, we also lost a key element in the relationships between men and women.


Sizzle364
(Juan S)
52M
2642 posts
1/16/2006 2:50 am

Slide said it much better than me...and by the way here is another question for debate...LOL A week and a day...


silkysmoothlegs3 105F

1/16/2006 7:21 am

1. Our culture has adopted a strategy that facilitates the feminization of men.

True

2. Masculinity, with its predilection to adventure, rowdiness, and risk has become a condition to be cured.

all men can be calmed and cured you just need a good women

3. Consequently, boys are in big trouble. School systems and other organizations have not taken the unique features of masculinity into consideration when designing curriculum or programs.

Dont agree.. schools do take into consideration a cirriculum for boys.. schools have a wide range of activities for both sexes

4. Our culture, intent on emasculating its boys, has produced a huge sense of withdrawal and boredom from its men.

boys will be boys.. doesnt matter what anyone else thinks, you cannot change that

5. As disconcerting as it may be to mothers everywhere, masculinity can only be imparted by masculinity. In other words, a young boy is never really sure he’s become a man until another man, or group of men, tells him so.

hmmmmmmmm..Boys do need other males in their lives, but i know boys that have grown up in a house full of women and they are very butch

6. Sadly, many, if not most, men have abdicated this responsibility.

em.. some not most.. small percentage

7. Every man needs a battle for which he can live and die.

Cant answer this one.. Im female..Id say men and womens needs are basically the same..

Christ trav.. what a post..

where are the sexy ones you promised

giggles


HBowt2 59F

1/16/2006 9:36 am

Thanks for raising this one Trav...I spent 2 years here in Ireland fighting an education program that suggested to young men that female qualities are more appreciated, normal and valued than the traditional
and implied more negative, male qualities and that boys would be more successful if they behaved like girls.
We managed to have it removed but the Gender Equality sector of the Department of Education is determined to return it in some form or other.
What ever happened to teaching our children virtues, such as kindness, humility, courage, consideration for others, patience, tolerance, sincerity based on belief in telling the truth etc
We should be teaching each child to be the best person they can be and recognising that girls will be girls and boys will be boys...


MillsShipsGayly 51M

1/16/2006 11:21 am

I called over the weekend but you didn't answer

1. Our culture has adopted a strategy that facilitates the feminization of men. Disagree. Feminism expanded what it means to be a woman and while no 'Masculinism' has emerged, the net-net has been a more tolerant and inclusive 'humanization'. I don't consider it a bad thing that some of the male group-think that is UGLY has been condemned.

2. Masculinity, with its predilection to adventure, rowdiness, and risk has become a condition to be cured. These very traits are the good side of the coin we should all want to impart on our children. Non-nurturing behaviour, maliciousness and abusiveness are the other side of that coin.

3. Consequently, boys are in big trouble. School systems and other organizations have not taken the unique features of masculinity into consideration when designing curriculum or programs. I don't think schools have changed anything more than honed their political correctness - nothing that takes away masculinity.

4. Our culture, intent on emasculating its boys, has produced a huge sense of withdrawal and boredom from its men. Withdrawal and boredom were present dating back to caveman hunters. Emasculating is way too strog a word in mho.

5. As disconcerting as it may be to mothers everywhere, masculinity can only be imparted by masculinity. In other words, a young boy is never really sure he’s become a man until another man, or group of men, tells him so. Does that mean that families without fathers do not share the predilection to the adventure, rowdiness, and risk you mention above? Too much of that in the african-american community, not enough responsible behaviour or (so says Bill Cosby).

6. Sadly, many, if not most, men have abdicated this responsibility.
Fatherhood is the most sacred responsibility and role we males play. To be a 'man' is to know what childish behaviours to lose and what wonderful childlike traits to keep!

7. Every man needs a battle for which he can live and die.
See the GI Joe-Ken-Barbie thing pertains everywhere!


rm_1hotwahine 63F
21091 posts
1/16/2006 5:05 pm

I officially change my answers to "yeah, what Michael said."

Yeah, I'm still [blog 1hotwahine]


StreaktheFreak 38F

1/16/2006 10:44 pm

i think that in order to have a good sense of masculinity or femininty that you need to grow and develope around both sides, otherwise you get a skewed version of what either are like...


Sorceror07 54M

1/17/2006 8:04 am

it's all true if you buy into it... new age philosophies and starting with the now disproven and recanted theories of dr. spock show we're just headed in the wrong direction. what ever happened to john wayne, richard burton, clint eastwood (as the badass western drifter that is) and the other male role models we grew up with? corporate america in collusion with the government slicked them up for better marketing and control is what...

1. Our culture has adopted a strategy that facilitates the feminization of men. ...which makes them easier to control AND market products to, rob a man of his identity and he's mush.

2. Masculinity, with its predilection to adventure, rowdiness, and risk has become a condition to be cured. ...which makes them easier to control AND market products to

3. Consequently, boys are in big trouble. School systems and other organizations have not taken the unique features of masculinity into consideration when designing curriculum or programs. i don't know about this one... except for the fact that most municipalities manage by crisis and usually don't plan ahead for anything else... so why this?

4. Our culture, intent on emasculating its boys, has produced a huge sense of withdrawal and boredom from its men. ...hence hours in front of the TV set... marketing and making us docile is what it's all about

5. As disconcerting as it may be to mothers everywhere, masculinity can only be imparted by masculinity. In other words, a young boy is never really sure he’s become a man until another man, or group of men, tells him so. true that... although a young man can best learn how to treat women from a woman.

6. Sadly, many, if not most, men have abdicated this responsibility. because of #4

7. Every man needs a battle for which he can live and die. yes, i would wholeheartedly agree with this... and it's not a macho thing either... it's an issue of self identity and self worth

...That which does not kill me merely pisses me off!...


kyplowboy22 61M

1/17/2006 12:17 pm

True


Sizzle364
(Juan S)
52M
2642 posts
1/17/2006 11:35 pm

Luscious and Bent, I would LOVE to negotiate with you... all the way to our mutual satisfaction.


i_fuck_dirty 33F

1/18/2006 8:08 pm

1. this is kinda tricky, while the femenization of men is becoming acceptable, i still want a manly man. i think the whole "metro" movement is the worst thing to happen to men. a man should be a man and all femenine tendancies left to woman and queens.
2. I HOPE MACULINITY IS NEVER CURED
3. i am all about equal opportunity for both boys and girls, it seems all the focus now is on girls and boys are left to ballet and band. i used to be involved in the scout organizations, and i tell you past the age of 7 the cub rate of participation sharply declined. i dont know if its a general thing, its only a personal observation. boys need some masculine role models in their lives instead of all this equal opportunity crap.
4. i am not bored with men, i am irritated by all the sexual confusion
5. please see #3. if a man does not tell a boy he is a man, he will look to his friends to tell him he is a man. thats where kids start doing stupid things at the wrong age.... lies, sex, and videotapes.
6. i sincerely hope this is not true.
7. i think so. maybe i was blessed by having a father that loved too much (all issues asside) but a real man should have a battle he will live and die for, and that should be his family.


MillsShipsGayly 51M

1/23/2006 7:49 am

{post 209243]


MillsShipsGayly 51M

1/23/2006 7:49 am

[post 209243]


Become a member to create a blog