Ooops! Excuse me! and a Challenge.  

shylena256 42F
2608 posts
9/2/2006 1:02 am

Last Read:
10/29/2006 12:45 pm

Ooops! Excuse me! and a Challenge.

While out and about being a sometimes longwinded and very opinonated person I stated my opinon on someone elses blog and started a fight of sorts.
Not my intention. And so I apologize profusely to Freetime648, whose blog makes me smile almost every morning. Sorry dude, not my intention.

But the guy who as also a visitor to Freetime's blog and who wants to argue with me now who has referred to me as an it etc.etc. etc. Has challenged me to contact him through email to further discuss the problem.
I have one problem with that. (Actually two at the moment I am on holiday and haven't done the footshow or chatted this can't send emails or read profiles) But my bigger issue is:

I answer with my opinon on blogs because I chersih the PUBLIC FORUM. I love discussing interesting topics like just recently with Fastfifties I had the GREATEST most interesting long thought-provoking discussion about the confederate flag, yes that one all the racists hang in their windows. I sure did learn a lot.

Anyway the discussion was size and I felt offended by what I found to be a racial stereotyping in someone elses comments as well as other generalizations and I wrote a long winded answer.
Freetime noted that my anser was long enough to be it's own blog but I REALLY didn't feel like blogging about that subject, just offering my opinion but when I went back later the tone had changed and any answer on my part aside from an apology to the blog's owner just seemed like starting a brawl at a party where I had sought to have a political discussion.
So I slept on it.
Now I have decided it's best for me to blog about this, or rather attempt to bring this discussion over to my blog so that I can say what I want without fucking up someone else's living room.

So I am challenging my sparring partner from yesterday to come over here and "talk about this like a man" on my blog.
I don't want another blogland drama, I don't want to be seen as an evil bitch who attcks other people on their blogs, though I am sure AZZWIT from my post a few back would disagree. I find myself falling into what I am calling 007sexy40plusLAND - ie being profiled as an angry black woman. Oh Fucking Well, you either get me or you don't, and sometimes I am angry. Not today, not yesterday but sometimes I am.
ANYWAY about the non drama starting desire bit... since I didn't want to bring drama I have not crossposted the link to Freetime's blog because, hers is usually a happy place and I don't wanna stir shit over there anymore than I already had.

Since I am a standard member and not up to my usual activities I can't send emails to ask permission/ expose this blog I am just going to do this: I will cut and paste the blog exchange from freetimes blog as the first response here. I will visit the blog of the guy with whom I am arguing and invite him here to discuss the issue.

And I would also ask you, dear Reader, not to comment on this subject with your opinion until the guy I am arguing with and I have a chance to discuss this further.

I am always up for a good discussion. I think talking about race and other important issues is the only way for us to know really where we stand. I do it all the time it helps me learn. I just really would like to have a chance to discuss this with this guy for a post or two, I don't think we are coming from such far different places that an interesting outcome and some learning couldn't occur.

Like I said: Please don't comment until the dude has had a chance to answer.

shylena256 42F
1967 posts
9/2/2006 1:17 am

Ok here's the deal: Freetime had asked about body size descriptions and said "To me, and I know that everyone has preferrences, but, to judge a woman with generalizations as the ones listed above can be quite demeaning!
Why can't you just decline a tryst or what not with a simple....No thanks...or You ar

One of the answers was:

LBbackdoorman 8/31/2006 1:10 pm
Usually the ones doing the generalizing are the women themselves.

Every other profile reads something like, I'm thick, I a BBW, I have a few extra pounds, etc, etc.

What I find fascinating is, if you say a white gal is thick, she gets all bent of shape. Whereas, a black girl takes it as a compliment. Alot of them are proud of their thick ass, and rightfully so.

To which I replied:
9/1/2006 12:16 am
Welcome to Generalizationville! Oh so much I have to say about this comment I don't know where to start.

Freetime good questions, I wouldn't have answered if I hadn't read the comments.

LBbackdoor man let's see what you said:
Usually the ones doing the generalizing are the women themselves.
Every other profile reads something like, I'm thick, I a BBW, I have a few extra pounds, etc, etc.
Yes but why? Well go over to any blog ever written by a woman who has replied to a guy with a polite "No thank you" on this site... Ha !Responses are 80% about how she is a fat bitch. You know and I know that our society is all about thin sexy women, why did Dove get so much attention for using thin women in their adds that the media claimed were "fuller figured"... do you know the billboards I am talking about? Those were skinny normal sized women and every one was like "They're so big"
Fat chicks have a life of (societal) rejection behind them and many here are worried that they have a life of rejection ahead of them too.
On this site we all know it pays to be honest, also we know that most of us are looking for sexual fulfillment of some kind.
Sex is a personal thing and if done right you are reaching personal, physical and emotional levels of honesty/exposure with another human being. When you cum you bare your soul.
What you do not want when you are out opn this search for someone to share this orgasmic moment, is rejection. No one does, but especially the shallow physical "you're too fat for me" rejection, all the more so because this can be SPARED if you just point it out on your profile.
People on here see the models that advertise this site and subconciously have a picture of any horny woman looking like the porn queen of their dreams, many people have physical preferences that run in this direction. If women make it clear on their profiles that they are large fat bbw cuddly ample whatever it saves them getting emails or starting IM sessions with guys who, when they find this out, will reject them.
We all know women on here get lots of emails every day from losers who write total bs, why not filter out some who wont work?
I am fat, always have been and never wanted to lose weight either, but, until I came on this site, I never had accepted myself as a beautiful person. Many of the women I met while chatting in the BBW chat room helped me to re-mold my personal opionion of my body. Still, old insecurities die hard, and emotional patterns jump up in moments of weakness and I still feel especially offended when someone bags on fat people. I wanna get laid and I need a guy that will understand that. When I had erotic pics up on my profile they did not show my belly but I still would occaisonally get unsolicited "You are a fat bitch" emails.
Body size is an issue everywhere but somehow especially here. It is all fine and good to be above it or acceptant of others or personally find it a non-issue, but to think that others don't care or to deny that they will and DO have preferences/turn-ons/turn offs is just silly. Reality has it that people look for physical attraction when searching for a sex partner.
What I find fascinating is, if you say a white gal is thick, she gets all bent of shape. Whereas, a black girl takes it as a compliment. Alot of them are proud of their thick ass, and rightfully so.

That is such utter BULLSHIT.
YE GODS how can I even answer such an ofensive statement?
Still I will try, because I want to help you.
First of all take your racial stereotyping and stick it away in the box where you got it from! Just put it AWAY dude! If you want to talk about cultures where it appears that bigger women are sexy then do so, but find an intelliegent non-inflammatory non stereotypical way to say it, and THEN find some fucking examples that have more to do than the old black and white soapbox! Jesus H on a crutch dude! Are you talking about the USA? NEWSFLASH We have many cultures that appreciate "thick" women including latino, italian, samoan and yes black american.
Don't trivialize me with your attitude dude! Okay and on to the fact that in some cultures some men prefer thick women and are allowed to do so openly, it still does not equal a cultural norm in which all fat girls from that culture are proud to be fat. Oh my god I don't even know where or how I can explain this one to you but it's just so wrong and offensive. I just can't even go there. I will just say, I am fat , I am black, I do not appreciate ANY man who would want me for my size OR my color. I feel offended by your generalization that black woman would take being large as a compliment. I know a few large black women and I cannot think of one who would be pleased to be praised for her girth. The white chicks either, though the first large woman I knew who felt sexy was white.

Break the mold dude. Your stereotypes are not working any more.
Think deeper to help solve the problem.

freetime648 9/1/2006 12:45 am
Wow...looks like a blog within itself!

LBbackdoorman 9/1/2006 2:31 am
?* Down girl! Down! ?* Dammnnn! Someone here has issues bigtime!

So quick to judge and misinterpret what I said. Little bit of a hair trigger there I might add. Hope you feel better now that you've "generalized" me into the same class of losers that you've been attracting. Sorry to hear you get such filthy email from guys, maybe they just got wind of your low self-esteem issues. Usually that shows a weakness that they prey on.

With all seriousness. Let me make a few things absolutely crystal clear.

For one, I have no issues with anyone, I could careless what they look like, or how thin or fat they think they are. I don't write these profiles. I don't write hateful shit in my blog about people, and I don't go hauling off bitching people out on someone elses blog. The most important thing to me is the persons personality and attitude and how they reflect that on others.

Second, I have dated women of different sizes, races and ethnicities. And calling me a racist with a stereotypical attitude is about the farthest thing from the truth. Obviously you don't know me very well.

And yes, I have dated black women and I don't have a problem with it at all. And the one's I have dated are extremely proud of what they have, and they tell me so. Plus they are still great friends. So if you think you're speaking in behalf of some of the women I have met or known, I really think they would tell you otherwise.

So if your still in the mood for cussing me out, why not send it to me in email instead of posting your problem on freetime's blog.

Show some respect and dignity and ask me personally to clarify any misunderstandings you may have.

Sorry about that freetime. It was obvious she never read my profile or blog. Let alone ask for clarification.

I'll try not to let that happen again.

I know how to handle people like this. Thats why I asked to have future vents sent to my email.

shylena256 42F
1967 posts
9/2/2006 1:53 am

Ok now I will try and answer your last comment.
First off I do not want to discuss this issue per email.
That is why I have invited you to my blog to discuss it.
I think it is important that this remain a public discussion because somehow to me thats the whole point, the things I learn from reading other people's blogs and their comments is what I like about the entire blogging forum. Interaction.
Second, I better probably go back and read what I wrote again before I start defending it, cuz you are right when you say I had a hair trigger reaction, just wanna check if I still stand by my opinions, or what things I said and how they could be interpreted.
Ok did that. I stand 100% by what I said and I think I was right.
My comments were definitely aimed at your statement and before I got pissed about racial generalizations I think I remained almost clinical.
First off I am not calling you a racist. I am asking you to examine your wording about "black girls" this and "white girls" this. I think it's wrong.
As an aside I also think it's wrong that everybody seems to accept the "positive" racial stereotyping of black guys having big dicks.

Okay on to answer more of what you said.
Your first line about the self esteem was cutting and if I had self-esteem issues would have worked. I think your "sophisticated" style of intellectual passive aggression is grade school baby caca.
As to the losers you seem to think I have been attracting, well, sorry nope. You mentioned I had probably never viewed your blog or profile and you are right, but I'm betting you haven't ever understood the magic of the footshow. So we don't know jack all about the kind of people the other is attracting. I don't think we owe one another an explanation in this discussion as it's neither here nor there. I hadn't generalized you into a bunvh of pathetic weird email lamos at all Mr. Self esteem issues, I just talked about them, they are a known fact, I didn't say you were one, else I'da said that.

I do not doubt the fact that you have dated women of many colors, you totally said that and you were trying to make a point about self esteem issues with larger women and differences you saw and noticed. Hell I don't even fault you for that. That's not my point. No my point is that you said tell a white girls shes fat and she is pissed, tell a black girl shes fat and shes cool with it. WHICH IS BULLSHIT.
I wanted you to find a better way to say what you meant without a sweeping generalization about all black girls. I was saying HEY NOW I'm a black girl and ain't nobody gonna tell me I'm fat and have me say ohy ah baby thanks for the compliment. I was trying to stop a rumour getting spread.
I think each individual woman's body image depends on the woman.
I did not like you saying a black girl takes it as a compliment(to be called fat). Because see, I am a black girl and it is not a compliment to me.
I do not deny that there are many cultures where it is more socially acceptable both to be a large woman or be a man attracted to large women.
I am saying you can't just say it's ok to call fat black women fat and they take it as a compliment.
Regardless of how many women you have dated, thick or thin or whatever color, even if you have dated 20 large black women who all took it as a compliment I do not think it is a valid statement.
I am asking you to stick that racial stereotype away, to rethink it, to think about the cultrural things involved, to ask yourself if it's really true what you say, and to say it in a way that is true but is not a blanket statement.
I totally get what you mean about some large black women feeling sexy, apparently more so than large white women, though I truly doubt that. I think it's just a stereotype.

You then did that in your response stating that the black women that you have dated were large and proud. If you had said that the first time I wouldn't have even commented. I would have understood. So often semantics is important, as I learned by being so pissed with you that I pissed you off too.

I don't know yet if I am still in the mood for cussing you out, but I still do stand by all my points. Your answer kinda tee'd me off too but I'd be willing to bet we can still pull off a discussion with style.

As I said the public forum is very important to me, and I commented for it to be seen because I wasn't down with your lingo.
Please feel free to discuss here with me Lbackdoorman.

And because of the public forum, I think you missed the point that to me this isn't just about you Lbackdoorman it's for other people who didn't see the weirdness/wrongness of your comment about black girls taking it as a compliment. Now in your response as I said cloaked between vehemence and dehumanizing me, you did a slight change up/explanation of what you had said and it's fine with me.
It's not being racist, it's just using racial stereotypes, we all do it. I do it, I like to think about it and I definitely like to talk about it.

Show some respect and dignity and ask you personally to clarify misunderstandings, yes if I have a personal problem with you. But I do think my response belonged there where it was. After you responded so baitingly though, I agree it was time to take this somewhere else.
I always do my dirty laundry at home. This is my home, here we are.


PS I resent being called "people like this" by you, but I invite you anyway without malice.

IviesBidesJuste 55M
3658 posts
9/2/2006 3:04 am

Lena. I emailed you about this privately. I've been also well over it since the skirmish, so everythings fine. I just think there was a misunderstanding on what was written as well as the response.

But your right, I'm a drama free person and I like to keep it that way. So even discussing this further just invites more hostility.

Like you said, you're fairly new here. Welcome and enjoy the site. Don't let the bad guys get you down and keep reading what you enjoy reading. I think you'll find it quite interesting.

My blog is probably not everyone's cup of tea. But it's a welcome relief for people looking for something a bit different than dealing with people that just want to bang anything on two legs.

The thing I disagree with (when dealing with me) is I don't use stereotyping. No matter how you look at it. People like to hang that label over others heads, but I'll be the first to walk out the door (or avoid the chatrooms) and disassociate myself from that.

My statement was one of which, the people I associate with are very comfortable in their own skins, nothing less.

Actually, a few of my friends have seen the posts mentioned. Some are not members, others are. But they just pretty much said, no big deal.

I'll talk to you soon, I have some stuff I'm going thru for my next blog entry. It's more about Nutrition. (yea I know, boring). I don't get tons of comments, but at least I'm getting readers and a lot more friends and compliments from it. So somebody must be paying attention to it.

shylena256 42F
1967 posts
9/2/2006 3:49 am

I didn't say I was new here. I said I had been limited to only blogging this past week.
You just hadn't noticed me yet.
Your welcome should be a nice to meet you and the jury is out on that for now.

I will repeat that I am only interested in discussing this in a public forum.

I think you are avoiding the issue here which was racial stereotypes.

I do not think further discussing it will bring hostility and once again invite you to reassess what you originally wrote.

I disagree that you don't you use stereotyping.

I am glad that the people with whom you associate are comfortable in their own skins.

I still disagree with your original "black girl" "white girl" statement.

Like I said I am interested in discussing this but only in a public forum, which is why I will not be responding to your email on this subject.

I think we are both smart enough to do it, and I for one, am willing to back up my opinons and attempt to forge an understanding between the two of us without being pissy.

It's nice that your friends don't think it's a big deal. I do. You are invited to talk about it here with me.

I am not interested in reading a blog about nutrition, but thanks for the invite. I am glad you find blogging fun and fruitful (nutrition-fruitful-get it? haha) I'm sure I will get a chance to see your blog every once in a while if and when the mood hits. In the same way I invite you to check out the footshow sometime, though it is currently on vacation.

I also now officially open up the discussion to anyone who is interested in talking about racial stereotypes with me.

rm_affbreak 45M
287 posts
9/3/2006 5:05 am

That's a hell of a bunch of lines here.

'Inviting' somebody to write on your blog instead of sorting things out via email is putting a gun onto the recipient's chest, in a way forcing him to take part as otherwise his opinion could be ranted about at free will. Rhetoric move, though.

There are racists out there. And there are people rating things from the experience they made during their lifetime. If all banana we ate during our lifetime was yellow we might tend to think all banana is yellow. There's red banana too, though. Facing this it's easy to see the human learning process seems to make us tend towards generalization.

I don't think generalization is a good thing itself - but that's often the package an opinion comes wrapped inside. Imo one should never fight opinions - one should try to convince instead. Wrong generalization though is worth to be fought against and i - reading his posting - have no doubt that guy DOES NOT want his OPINION to be seen as generalisation - as a real racist would. Even though his first lines could make us think that.

Here's a theory to think about:

If advertising with slim girls in the past has made some woman to believe they are fat, is there a chance there were more slim 'caucasion' girls in the ads than 'non caucasion' girls?

If there were more 'caucasion girls' in the ads - is there a chance the effect of starting to think one is fat on viewer side was less severe in the group of the 'non caucasion' viewers, as they didn't identify as much with the 'caucasian skeletons' in the first place as 'caucasian' people might have done?

shylena256 42F
1967 posts
9/4/2006 11:49 pm

Thanks for stopping by, I thought you might be interested in a discussion of this sort.
Predicate, me? Wow, cool if it's true, I just didn't know a better way to continue the discussion tactfully.
In the end Freetime said she shared my opinon of blogs being a discussion forum, and didn't think I needed to apologize, so I guess that was just something else that LB assumed.
You are right in your conclusion that we are all unique individuals, thanks for saying it that way. I think freetime was questioniong the need for a physical description on a profile.

About making a stereotype about shit-stirring men? Well It has been done repeatedly, but like the Ugly American description/stereotype, I find it's just too damn easy. But yes I am guilty of having muttered "men" in that disparaging tone.
That's exactly what I mean... let's talk about these things when we see them. I like learning and thinking about shit like this.

Yes, there is so much going on here you do have to go all over the place to answer, fun, huh?

About blogging etiquette, awhile back I asked about that Rules of Blogging? BLOGiquette? or ....
If you can think of some tips...

Oh and I am diggin' on your description of me! Ineedit560 often quotes her "coach" on her blog. She has some wonderfully positive affirmations over there like: In praise of my coach
I think I may use your description of me as one for myself.
Thanks dude!

shylena256 42F
1967 posts
9/5/2006 12:03 am

hi nice to see you again. And thanks for such a thoughtful post!
You say a lot, and you are right about the bananas.
I definitely do not see the invitation to discuss this over here as a gun to the chest. I think I described pretty well why I am only interested in discussing this in a public forum and I stand by that, interesting viewpoint though, I hadn't considered that at all.

I agree with you that LB doesn't want to come across as racist, I don't even think he is. I do however think he is guilty of using blanket race-based generlizations as an easy way to describe what he is saying and I am certain that his choice of words offended me.

Your advertising theory is cool, never heard quite that spin on it before. I was more of the impression that the skinny white chick advertisment/media image made it neccessary for women of color to whiten-up to go mainstream, ie straighten their hair, anglicize their names etc.
But you may have something there with the not relating to the image in the first place and therefore not attempting to internalize it/ fit in.

Like I said thanks a lot for stopping by.


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