Liberty  

rm_deaminveni 50M
139 posts
12/21/2005 3:23 pm

Last Read:
3/5/2006 9:27 pm

Liberty


VoodooGuru1 recently posted Longest post EVERRRRR!. It makes distrubing reading and resonates with my own feelings in so many ways. VoodooGuru1's post is very long (but worth reading). Mine is shorter (mainly because it's late, I'm tired, and if I get too fired up I'll sound like a crank as I start to rant about civil liberties.)

Bear in mind as you read VoodooGuru1's post and mind what Edmund Burke once said, "All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing."

Not being a US citizen does not mean not being effected by decisions made by Bush. Partcularly when you're a UK citizen (let's face it we're pretty much the 51st State - or UK PLC depending on how you look at it) and you have Blair as Prime Minister and when Bush says "Jump", Blair says "how high?".

The UK has also introduced (or is trying to introduce) all sorts of "anti-terror" legislation in the wake of events of the past four years, among the "best" are:

- Removal of the right to trial by jury (mercifully, not yet)

- Bio-metric Identity cards. (These will be "optional" but you won't be able to claim welfare, or get a job without one.)

- The introduction of a law prohibiting "incitement of racial or religious hatred". Bear with me on this one. Firstly, there are already laws to deal with this in various forms, but this law has been framed in such a wooley way that it could mean almost anything. I tell a joke about "An Englishman, an Irishman, and a Scot walk into a bar...", someone takes offense. Can I be prosecuted? Strictly, yes I can. Fortunately they have not yet abolished the judiciary system so there's hope things like that would not proceed. But the potential for misuse is too horrible to contemplate.

- They recently tried (and thankfully failed) to try to admit into evidence information acquired by torture (provided that that torture was conducted in a foreign country by non-UK citizens). WHAT!? Talk about double standards! We won't permit our guys to torture you to extract information, but if someone else has done it then the information MUST be good right? Like I said, thankfully this one was thrown out, but the fact they even thought it was a good idea is very scary.

and my all time favourite...

- The power for ANYONE "suspected" of terrorist related activity to be detained (and here comes the best bit) without charge, without the need for evidence to be presented, with no rights to representation, with no rights to know what you are being accused of (or by whom), for a period of 90 days (thankfully this was later reduced to 28 days, but that was up from the original 14 days). I don't like this one at all. When they introduced the 14 day period I thought "Hmm! Apart from the obvious civil rights issues, this is the thin edge of a very big wedge." Sure enough they've started putting up the period for which you can be detailed; 14 days is now 28 days, what next?

And the final word I leave to William Penn, "To do evil that good may come of it is for bunglers in politics as well as morals."

49AK 55M
1823 posts
12/21/2005 3:51 pm

It is dejecting enough to want to be uninvolved with the process, except that it concedes the initiative to the busy bodies.

Fight...


SmedlySuperGophr 52M

12/21/2005 5:31 pm

The one thing I just love about Americans is their unwillingness to allow violations of their civil liberties and freedoms (as oppose to us Canadians who just sit around on our fat behinds letting corrupt government hold onto power and criticizing our neighbors). Unfortunately, the US Government pounced on the opportunity to make a power grab after 911. The Patriot Act was passed just 45 days after September 11 and there was virtually no debate. Although there is now some grassroots groundswell from across the political spectrum, the damage has already been done. Once the door is open, it is very difficult to close. There are over 53 million people in the US alone that feel the Patriot Act goes too far. From what I’ve read, there have been resolutions opposing the Act in approx. 340 communities in 41 states, including four statewide resolutions. Why did this not happen when the Patriot Act was passed? Since when is okay that security and safety come at the price of freedom?

If you haven’t already seen it, check out the film by Sidney Lumet/Tom Fontana (Oz) in which stories are intertwined. It stars Glen Close and is called “Strip Search”. In one story an Arab man is interrogated by the FBI, and in the other an American woman undergoes the same treatment in China. The dialogue for each story is identical which creates a really neat effect. If you just viewed the interrogation in China, you’d be shocked. Now the same interrogation is being done in the US - that’s what gives the film its power. The opening scene sets the stage where a college professor asks his class as series of questions on how much freedom they’d be willing the sacrifice for security and peace in the world.

How much are we willing to give up?????


CelticKarma 43F
1350 posts
12/21/2005 5:34 pm

Wasn't it posted by [blog VoodooGuru1]? I could swear it was him and not Trav who posted it...

(It's PK, my main profile is blocked...)


rm_deaminveni 50M
116 posts
12/22/2005 1:57 pm

Yeah PK, you're right. I must have been half asleep - hey it was a long day. I've changed my post


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