I AM ASHAMED......  

rm_Kissmystuff 61F
2665 posts
2/16/2006 2:21 pm

Last Read:
6/28/2009 3:39 pm

I AM ASHAMED......

I am ashamed of what our government does in our name. Abu Ghraib!

You will find other pictures and the article at the on line magazine Salon.

Why is it only those of lower rank are being punished?


Kiss


BlueEyedSoul65 51M
1027 posts
2/16/2006 8:53 pm

I couldn't agree with you more. Even if one can buy into the premise that the Iraq invasion is in the name of fighting terrorism and/or promoting democracy, then treatment such as this should especially be held as the antithesis of those ideals. Under any circumstance though I can't see what good anyone would think would come of this. It's hypocritical to take a moral stance and to violate those principles at the same time.
I wouldn't think this has only occured to those of lower ranks either. We've only just seen the cases of that because their lower ranks are guarded by ours, some of whom have turned out to be malicious morons with cameras.


rm_Kissmystuff 61F
1435 posts
2/17/2006 7:41 am

BlueEyed

Thanks for stopping and leaving a comment. I get angry...sad...hurt...scared...lots of different emotions when it comes to this. It's just hard to fathom that things have come to this. What's next?

Kiss


rm_1102wavedMy 59M
19 posts
2/17/2006 9:02 am

Oh my God, who do you think is committing suicide with bombs stramped to their bodies & trying to walk into public areas to kill innocent moms, dads & children; not Osoma Bin Landa. Even a woman stamped a bomb & walk into an American Hotel. They hope to go to heaven with seven virgins!
Since 9~11, there has not been another successful attack in the US. President Bush has taken this battle to their back yard & not ours!


LickYourYoni 67M
464 posts
2/17/2006 12:10 pm

if the shoe were on the other foot,
i bet we would hear our shameful
government loudly crying foul.


rm_Kissmystuff 61F
1435 posts
2/17/2006 12:27 pm

    Quoting rm_1102wavedMy:
    Oh my God, who do you think is committing suicide with bombs stramped to their bodies & trying to walk into public areas to kill innocent moms, dads & children; not Osoma Bin Landa. Even a woman stamped a bomb & walk into an American Hotel. They hope to go to heaven with seven virgins!
    Since 9~11, there has not been another successful attack in the US. President Bush has taken this battle to their back yard & not ours!
well 1102

There weren't insurgents in Iraq until we attacked them. The attacks taking place in Iraq are aimed mostly at the people of Iraq. Does this excuse torture by the U.S.? This simply turns more people against us. Given that premise...not been another attack since 911...there were NO attacks on U.S. soil from outside before Bush...so..

Kiss


rm_Kissmystuff 61F
1435 posts
2/17/2006 2:17 pm

    Quoting LickYourYoni:
    if the shoe were on the other foot,
    i bet we would hear our shameful
    government loudly crying foul.
I'm sure we would hear the government crying foul if the shoe were on the other foot.

But given the symbol of freedom that this country is supposed to be...how can we justify torture? I don't believe these are empty accusations...I think this country is torturing prisoners...and talking out of both sides of their mouths...condemning it when others do it...but also doing it to others. The rest of the world isn't stupid...they see the hyprocrisy.

Kiss


bardicman 50M

2/17/2006 3:22 pm

The torture is a travesty just like Bill Clintons presidency. Had he stepped up to the plate and been a proper leader he could have nipped this in the bud before Bush became president. The attack on the trade towers took months and months of training and planning. Bush had not been president months and months. To try to pin fault of the attack on Bush is just, IMHO, wrong.

I don't think the torture was/has been justified. It will always be a dark day in USA history. but it is still better than the mass graves and the wood chippers of the Saddam era. That does not justify the torture but it does justify the war.

Iraq was full of insurgents before the war. They were the ones feeding people into the wood chippers feet first so they could listen to them scream until they finally died. They were the ones killing anyone who spoke out against Saddam, or were accused of it.



I am not dead yet


interested13563 53M
2557 posts
2/17/2006 4:51 pm

Again I fully agree! The problem I am afraid is not just
a mere aberration. It is in fact institutional. This is
why those who are really responsible always get away and
the "small" culprits pay the price. People seem to disbelieve
this reality simply because it is psychologically uncomfortable
and not compatible with the accepted doctrine of superiority
and manifest destiny. It is this reason that allows such
horrors to happen.


interested13563 53M
2557 posts
2/17/2006 4:56 pm

My comments seem to disappear. I I try once more:

Again I fully agree! The problem I am afraid is not just
a mere aberration. It is in fact institutional. This is
why those who are really responsible always get away and
the "small" culprits pay the price. People seem to disbelieve
this reality simply because it is psychologically uncomfortable
and not compatible with the accepted doctrine of superiority
and manifest destiny. It is this reason that allows such
horrors to happen.


rm_Kissmystuff 61F
1435 posts
2/18/2006 10:05 am

bardicman & interested...

The foreign policies of this country have led up to what we have today in Iraq and the resentment of other arab and muslim dominated countries. Keep in mind...that these policies existed during both Democratic and Republican administrations. I point to the hypocrisy of this country...PERIOD.Saddam would not have been in power were it not for the support of the U.S.A. It was also this country that helped supply Saddam with the chemicals that he used against his own people and this country stood by as he did what he did. What suddenly changed that the U.S.A. no longer supported him? It wasn't that we were soooo concerned for the welfare of the Iraqie people.

It's already been shown that the insurgency was not an issue prior to this war. It is the occupation that has helped to give fuel to the groups responsible. Much of the surgency comes from outside of Iraq.

More and more information is coming out that the decision was already made to go to war...and that in spite of intelligence to the contrary...re weopons of mass destruction...and Saddam being a part of the 911 attacks...Tony Blair and Bush had already decided to attack Iraq. They lied...

Kiss


interested13563 53M
2557 posts
2/18/2006 4:47 pm

Exactly: this is what I meant by saying the problem is
institutional. It transcends the two major parties and
has its roots in the prevailing way of thinking, especially
on foreign policy. The information you provide is
painfully accurate and there is much more, concering
involvement in other countries - all well documented,
often criminal, thus not an accepted topic of public
discourse. I wish everybody asked the question what
does this all (invasion, war, torture, disregard for
international law etc) say about us?


rm_Kissmystuff 61F
1435 posts
2/18/2006 6:23 pm

interested...

The disregard has never been so blatant as it is with this particular administration. It doesn't shine a very flattering light upon the U.S. The thing is...it seems that this disregard is being turned upon the people of this country as well...our civil liberties being slowly eroded away...while it seems...we...the public...are largely asleep and allowing it to happen.

When you step back...take look at what is going on in the world...it's not a very comforting picture. Each continent...each country...each political system...each market and economy...each population...all a part of the puzzle. I sometimes feel as though the vast majority are simply lemmings...being manipulated...herded...and to the slaughter...or worse.

Kiss


ArgosPlumyKooky 45F
3902 posts
2/18/2006 11:06 pm

it is sad is what it is. humans are being hurt. our president IGNORES everything. we are setting ourselves up to get retaliated upon in a major way. how in the name of anything can this continue? bush ignores the UN, he ignores everyone! the man is without morals or conscience, and is a hypocrite of the grandest sort. i detest him and everything he does.


TopFisher 63M

2/19/2006 3:18 am

"Does this excuse torture by the U.S.?"

Really and such is proven by whom and when and where?

The MSM has actually that so much as holding someone in a cell is "torture", such is not the case at all. Humilation and torture are quite different!

The psa sickos require you to submit to a body cavity search, Such is indeed humiliating. Same scenario, they take a finger off of you while searching you. Oh and since you are nakid, let two or three fuck you then.........

This country has ZERO concept of the term "torture! We do not subscribe to such.

Abu griab is such old news it's not worth speaking of. Did some folks do something to some captavies? Yes they did.

***********
it is sad is what it is. humans are being hurt. our president IGNORES everything. we are setting ourselves up to get retaliated upon in a major way. how in the name of anything can this continue? Clinton ignored the UN, he ignored everyone! the man is without morals or conscience, and is a hypocrite of the grandest sort. i detest him and everything he does.
***************
Now that is more like it.

I don't think it was GWB that REFUSED to take Osma into custody no less than four seperate times was it? AFTER the congress and the administration was warned that this wa possibly the most dangerour man on the planet! Thanks Oli

But DNA proved that it was his sperm on the blue dress right?

he is the only president actually impeached right?

And he and his bride, Hillarious are........ Oh these two are so fucked up you can't even imagine!

Is GWB perfect, fuck no, he could not become president if he was. But he did not leave his g/f in the car after it went off a bridge did he? Teddy did! Oh wait , mary jo was not a g/f, just another party girl fuck right?

If you or I did this, we would still be in jail,,, where is darling Teddy? How much are you continuing to pay him each and every day?

whatreallyhappened dot com /RANCHO/POLITICS/politics.html

Please if you have any interest in reality, take an hour or a day and check this place out.

Reality, I really do not care about your personal convictions about which side of any street you desire to walk. But I firmly believe that ignorance can be cured!

If a man were to cheat on you, i already know what would be posted here! but some attorney politician. It's sad that you can't identifey what a real prick feels like!

Probably 12" without lube! To the hilt first thrust!


rm_Kissmystuff 61F
1435 posts
2/19/2006 11:23 am

snatch...

Thanks for coming by and giving your imput. I like the fact that people are willing to talk about a topic which can be uncomfortable for many. Please come again.

Top...

Let's see now...

I guess the prisoners who died...beat or smothered themselves to death. If we go by the premise that nothing has been proven...then by the same token...Senator McCain...who claims to have been imprisoned and tortured...since none of us was there...wasn't really imprisoned and tortured. I guess the pictures taken at Abu Ghraib...were a set up by the prisoners to discredit the U.S.

Yes...Clinton lied...but when he lied...nobody died. You won't get any argument from me that Hillary is fucked up...maybe...maybe not. but...everyone has their shortcomings don't they? I have no idea what Ted Kennedy's past indiscretion...Clinton's infidelity and lies...or Hillary's personality has to do with the subject of this post.

My contention is that the policies this country has followed during the past decades...during Republican AND Democratic administrations...has led us to this point. There is enough evidence to point to the fact that torture is being used by the U.S. You don't have to be in the cell while it's going on to come to that conclusion. I don't close my eyes to the wrong doing of one party and condemn the other. For instance...the corruption scandal that has come to light...in Congress...I think not only the Republicans are guilty of taking bribes...I think members of both parties have been guilty of this.

Something does worry me though...and that's the polarity that has come about since Bush was put into office by the Supreme court...and it seems to be getting worse.

I also believe ignorance can be cured. But in order to do so...a mind has to be open to hearing/reading more than just one opinion. I make it a point to get information from all sides...before speaking my mind...do you?

In regards to the personal comment you make...

Since you don't know me...you really have no idea "what would be posted here" if a "man were to cheat" on me. I suspect your nether region must be numbed...since you don't seem to know you've had 5 years now...of that "12 inches without lube...to the hilt first thrust"...second...third...forth...and fifth thrusts. Good luck with that...I hope your ass wakes up...soon!

Hey...thanks for visiting...please come again.

Kiss


interested13563 53M
2557 posts
2/19/2006 4:25 pm

Indeed! I follow the developmenst around the world and
have lived elsewhere too. Most people are just herded
to their postulated well being, but in fact to their
detriment. And they do not even realize it!


rm_1102wavedMy 59M
19 posts
2/19/2006 8:44 pm

Kissmystuff~

I love your eyes!
War is hell.... The U.S. is not cutting the heads off any innocent reporters or even Iraqie soilders.
There have been counless attacks on Ameican Navy ships, US Embassies etc during the Clinton administration & before. Iraq is a safe house for terrorist who want to kill you & your family for being free to talk to one an other! What did the innocent people in The World Trade
Center do to Osma? Ask the Iraqie people about all the torture that has taken place the last twenty years!
Sure we have a few crazy US soliders go stir crazy from cabin fevor or whatever already. You can not blame this adminastration for the sick acts of a few soliders suffering form the cause affect of the war. War is hell!
I love your eyes, Kissmystuff


rm_1102wavedMy 59M
19 posts
2/19/2006 8:50 pm

Saddam has tortured & killed over (2) two million of his own people. His sons & killed thousands of innocent ladies! You don't wanna know about the money he stoled from his people that was suppose to be used to feed them!
Kissmystuff, your eyes are to get lost in! mmmmmmmm


Plano69 54M

2/19/2006 8:52 pm

Yes... it's all America's fault. It always is.
I mean, the rest of the world is too stupid to be blamed...
They are too ignorant to be responsible. They didn't do anything wrong. It's our fault we gave them food to survive...HAHA!
They're just innocent victims of America's foriegn aid... LOL!
Well, then let's just cut them all off...
And we'll spend our money just in America...


rm_Kissmystuff 61F
1435 posts
2/19/2006 9:43 pm

interested...

Do you ever wonder sometimes if it's even worth caring about it all?
Most people don't want to hear about the chess game going on...or the fact that most of us are considered only pieces...to be moved at someone's whim. I believe that awareness gives one power to remove themselves from the board...or at least as much as is possible.
But how do you reach a lemming...intent on rushing to the cliff?

Kiss


rm_Kissmystuff 61F
1435 posts
2/20/2006 1:02 am

Plano...

I realize you're being sarcastic...but. I'm also sure you realize...it's not really that simple. There's a lot of history involved...a lot of politics and covert and overt actions by coutries during that history and in present day. The world is changing. America is a superpower now...but this may well change in the next generation. We're going to need friends. If we burn all our bridges...where will we find those friends?

Kiss


interested13563 53M
2557 posts
2/20/2006 7:56 am

You are so right, kiss. I have wondered the same.
My only potential answer is that if there can be
a solution it can be achieved only collectively.
One has to keep being aware, maintain one's sanity,
first of all (remove oneself from the board) and
then keep comminucating with people (as you do).
I am certain that many have thoughts and doubts
but have difficulty accepting them as valid. Things
can get better. It just might take a few generations.


rm_cysport11 54M
1013 posts
7/4/2006 10:08 am

We sit here in our comfy house and point fingers at everyone else.
Agree or not with this countries war on terror. If we had done our jobs as americans and a free people, we would have put better people in office to lead this country and the world. I'm glad that I live in a country that has not just sat by and allowed people like the Islamic nits to run over people. If men like G,Washington, T,Jefferson or Ben Franklyn were like the people that we have placed in leadership today, we would not be celebrating our independence.
I'm a proud vet, I have been all over the world, WE are not the problem. Go back and read your history, Look at the Groups like the United Nations, what have they done,France,Germany, ya theres a good track record. Now we attack each other. We take our neighbors homes, all for the "Green space","Global Worming". We have Put the Fox in this hen house and feed him well. Yes I agree (interested13563) it can be achieved only collectively. We must start thinking big and placing bigger people in charge.


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