Why we're all fucked up  

puntachueca 105M
2534 posts
7/12/2006 3:13 am

Last Read:
7/13/2006 2:29 pm

Why we're all fucked up

Found this article...it helps explain why we're all fucked up.

Genital Pain vs. Genital Pleasure:
Why the One and Not the Other?

by James W. Prescott

. . .


It is well recognized that circumcision in the Jewish religious tradition represents a covenant with God (See Gerald Larue's article in this issue). It is less well recognized that the diminution of sexual pleasure is another major reason for circumcision in the Jewish religious tradition. This reason is clearly stated by Moses Maimonides in the Guide of the Perplexed (1190) which merits its full reproduction:


"As regards circumcision, I think that one of its objects is to limit sexual intercourse, and to weaken the organ of generation as far as possible, and thus cause man to be moderate. Some people believe that circumcision is to remove a defect in man's formation; but every one can easily reply: How can products of nature be deficient so as to require external completion, especially as the use of the foreskin to that organ is evident. This commandment has not been enjoined as a complement to a deficient physical creation, but as a means for perfecting man's moral shortcomings. The bodily injury caused to that organ is exactly that which is desired; it does not interrupt any vital function, nor dies it destroy the power of generation. Circumcision simply counteracts excessive lust; for there is no doubt that circumcision weakens the powerful sexual excitement, and sometimes lessens the natural enjoyment; the organ necessarily becomes weak when it loses blood and is deprived of its covering from the beginning. Our Sages say distinctly: It is hard for a woman, with whom an uncircumcised had sexual intercourse, to separate from him. This is, as I believe, the best reason for the commandment concerning circumcision." (Part III, Chapter 49)

Elsewhere in the Jewish religious tradition clear warnings are given concerning the dangers of sexual pleasure. The following quotes are taken from the Code of Jewish Law:
Chapter 150
The Sin of Discharging Semen in Vain
1: It is forbidden to discharge semen in vain. This is a graver sin than any other mentioned in the Torah. Those who practice masturbation and cause the issue of semen in vain, not only do they commit a grave sin, but they are under a ban, concerning who it is said (Issiah 1:15): "Your hands are full of blood," and it is equivalent to killing a person. SE what Rashi wrote concerning Er and Onan in the Sidrah of Vayeshev (Genesis 37), that both Er and Onan died for the commission of this sin. Occasionally, as a punishment for this sin, children die when young, God forbid, or grow up to be delinquent, while the sinner himself is reduced to poverty.

Chapter 151
Laws of Chastity
17. Semen is the vitality of man's body and the light of his eyes, and when it issues in abundance, the body weakens and life is shortened. He who indulges in having intercourse, ages quickly, his strength ebbs, his eyes grow dim, his breath becomes foul, the hair of his head, eyelashes and brows fall out, the hair of his bear, armpits and feet increase, his teeth fall out, and many other aches besides these befall him. Great physicians said that one out of a thousand dies from other diseases, while nine hundred and ninety-nine die from sexual indulgence. Therefore, a man should exercise self-restraint.

The Roman Catholic Church is equally affirmative on the moral dangers of masturbation whose only purpose is sexual pleasure. In the Vatican's "Declaration on Sexual Ethics," published by the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (December 29, 1975) , formerly the Holy Office of the Inquisition, the following is stated...
On Masturbation
9. The traditional Catholic doctrine that masturbation constitutes a grave moral disorder is often called into doubt or expressly denied today. It is said that psychology and sociology show that it is a normal phenomenon of sexual development, especially among the young... This opinion is contradictory to the teaching and pastoral practice of the Catholic Church. Whatever the force of certain arguments of a biological and philosophical nature, which have sometimes been used by theologians, in fact both the Magisterium of the Church--in the course of a constant tradition--and the moral sense of the faithful have declared without hesitation that masturbation is an intrinsically and seriously disordered act.

Elsewhere, the Roman Catholic church affirms the moral value of pain and suffering in The Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius of Loyola (the founder of the Society of Jesus):
"The third kind of penance is to chastise the body, that is to inflict sensible pain on it. This is done by wearing hair shirts, cords, or iron chains on the body, or by scourging our wounding oneself, and by other kinds of austerities" (1541) .

Many other examples could be cited, the most significant of which is the Crucifixion itself. God the Father's Divine Plan of Incarnation for his son: "So the Word was made flesh;" (John 1:14); and "I did not come of my own will; it was He who sent me" (John 8:42) was a plan for the mutilation, torture and murder of His only-begotten Son on the cross (euphemistically called "sacrificed" ) --- for the ulterior motive of human salvation! The ultimate psychopathology of this event is equating this mutilation, torture and murder with LOVE! Clearly Christian Love is as much an expression of pain and suffering as pleasure. It is this fusion of pain and suffering with love that forms one of the roots of sado-masochism which is so prevalent in monotheistic and patristic cultures.

Given the violence that this Father inflicted upon the Son He loved (and others), is it so surprising to find so much violence of other Fathers inflicted upon their sons (and daughters)? If "Man" is made "Unto the Image and Likeness of God", then the violence of "Man", becomes more understandable. Remember, it is this same God the Father that demanded the torture of helpless male newborns through the ritual mutilation of their genitals, called circumcision -- a practice that continues today in many monotheistic cultures.

Why was pain and violence and not pleasure and peace selected as the primary path for establishing the "bond" between God and Man and for human salvation? In all His Wisdom, Power and "Love" could He not have found a different solution to the enigma of human "salvation"? The answers to these questions lie elsewhere.

It should be recognized that the roots of the morality of pain and suffering and the immorality of physical sensual/sexual pleasure antedate the Crucifixion and the rise of monotheism. These basic concepts existed in parallel civilizations where, for example, the ancient Greek philosophers provided a clear metaphysical theory of good and evil that was directly related to a moral theology of pain and pleasure.

Greek Metaphysical Dualism provided the following equations:

MATTER = Body, Evil, Wickedness, Darkness, Chaos = FEMALE;
FORM = Soul, Goodness, Godlike, Lightness, Order = MALE.

It was Pythagoras (c. 582-c.507 B.C. ) who provided the sex fender equivalents of maleness with goodness; and femaleness with evil:
"There is a good principle which has created order, light and man; and a bad principle which has created chaos, darkness and woman."

Given this information is it so surprising to find the following in Ecclesiasticus (25:33): From the woman came the beginning of sin, and by her we all die." And in Paul, I Corinthians (7:1) "Now concerning the things whereof you wrote me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman." Many other examples could be mentioned that are too numerous to cite which reflect this absurd and more erroneous dualistic moral theory of human nature, gender and behavior.

Maimonides has perhaps provided the clearest exposition of these metaphysical/moral/gender relationships in The Guide of the Perplexed (when the word "matter" occurs think "female," when the word "form" occurs think "Male" ) ...
"All bodies subject to generation and corruption are attained by corruption only because of their matter; with regard to form and with respect to the latter's essence, they are not attained by corruption, but are permanent...Similarly every living being dies and becomes ill solely because of its matter and not because of its form. All man's acts of disobedience and sin are consequent upon his matter and not upon his form, whereas all his virtues are consequent upon his form...consequnetly it was necessary that man's very noble form, which as we have explained is the image of God and His likeness, should be bound to earthy, turbid and dark matter, which calls down upon man every imperfection and corruption; He granted it -- I mean the human form -- power, dominion, rule, and control over matter, in order that it subjugate it, quell its impulses, and bring it back to the best and most harmonious state that is possible (III:8, pp. 430-432). (Part III, Chapter 8 )

Perhaps it is now more clear how philosophical and theological moral dualism has conspired against the human body, particularly the female body and the sensual/sexual pleasures that they represent. This moral dualism of Western Civilization which subordinate female to male; assures the continuing inequality of woman to man and supports the violence of man against woman and her children. (Reich, 1971).

This fundamentalist/orthodox morality of Western Civilization requires that the sensual/sexual pleasures of the body must be extremely limited if not destroyed to achieve "salvation of the soul" (re, the "virtues" of celibacy, virginity and chastity). What better place to begin that with the mutilation and destruction of the genitals which are designed to experience sensual pleasure and share sexual love?

It is not without reason the the monotheistic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) have carried their religions on the edge of the sword -- the same sword that cuts the genitals of children (male and female): and which mutilates their souls.

It is clear to this writer that, before genital mutilations of our children can cease, before male violence against children can end, and before human violence can be eliminated, a moral revolution must take place.

Pain must be declared immoral and pleasure must be declared morally necessary, If we are to become moral persons.

In the words of Walt Whitman:

Mermaidslut 49F

7/12/2006 4:28 am

uh huh

puntachueca replies on 7/12/2006 11:03 am:

cairnsmale55 105M

7/12/2006 5:49 am


puntachueca replies on 7/12/2006 11:04 am:
The part of that article I didn't post was all about how the pain of circumcision haunts us guys for our entire lives.

rm_kalanchoe88 54F

7/12/2006 8:05 am

"Why was pain and violence and not pleasure and peace selected as the primary path for establishing the "bond" between God and Man and for human salvation? In all His Wisdom, Power and "Love" could He not have found a different solution to the enigma of human "salvation"?"

This is one of the central questions for me right now. Not just the question of pain and violence, but of coercion, obedience, shame, sin and guilt. Why not love, rather than force?

puntachueca replies on 7/12/2006 11:07 am:
If you go back far enough you find a different kind of religion based on Nature and the Goddess...and this was primary led by women.

When the guys started taking over, they demonized women and sex ands pleasure.

This is all very well documented....but since it attacks the power and control of the male dominated establishment it isn't in the best seller lists...it has been a war for over 2000 years.

(What the fuck is this shit..?? *rolls eyes*)

7/12/2006 3:32 pm

What I have NEVER under stood was the need for SALVATION I came into this Earth walk a whole and beautiful Spirit,Soul, to learn more of my self and grow Spiritually...But than I am of Native American Blood who fell on the white side of the fence and adopted out to a White family and all their Catholic endocrine could change what I came in to this Earth walk knowing....In other words you can white wash a fence but you can NEVER change the true nature of the wood....Ready


puntachueca replies on 7/12/2006 7:02 pm:
You are very gifted and special.
I think we all have the original Spirit in us..it is in ou genes...but we are white washed and abused into beliving just the opposite of what we really are...all part of the Great Spirit.

I've spent a lot of time hanging out with American Indian shamans..

amoldenough 69F
16436 posts
7/12/2006 6:34 pm

OMG--if all men were uncircumsized, and felt even more pleasure than they do when circumsized, then I wonder what the world would be like!

"Don't cry because it's over; smile because it happened."

puntachueca replies on 7/12/2006 7:04 pm:
Imagine a world where sex and senaulity and pleasure were the norm and not some kind of disease.

puntachueca replies on 7/12/2006 7:04 pm:
Imagine a world where we loved each other and pain was evil...and everyone could enjoy sex to the max....

rm_kelli4u2dew 41F
5220 posts
7/12/2006 9:43 pm

Are you a bot?

puntachueca replies on 7/13/2006 3:25 am:
hell no. But that was one heck of a mind blowing article. I was raised both Jewish and Catholic and I remember as a kid all the brainwashing. Still getting over it.

amoldenough 69F
16436 posts
7/12/2006 9:47 pm

Well, that would be the ideal world, of course. Now we just have to work toward that goal. If each person did their share to make the world a better, happier place, that would be great. Or would the sex and sensuality and everyone enjoyed sex to the max, leave us ending up like the fall of Rome? I'm not disagreeing with you, just wondering.

"Don't cry because it's over; smile because it happened."

puntachueca replies on 7/13/2006 3:27 am:
I see where human potential to create good things and not waste all our energy and lives in war for example .

tracy_de_lacy 105F
9268 posts
7/13/2006 1:27 am

if you haven't already done so it is time for you to explore the gnostic texts and the writings of the ancient sumerians (the people who wrote the original stories taken up by the jews).

There are more questions than answers but it is very interesting to try to find the answers.

Bye everyone, it was a blast

puntachueca replies on 7/13/2006 3:31 am:
I have. It started with the Da Vinci Code...the secret really being the destruction of the Goddess and the male domination power over bullshit. Mary Magdalene may not have been Jesus' wife (though it would have been extremely odd in the context of Judiasm at the time if Jesus had been unmarried) but she sure got short shrift. Tucson has one of the great feminist bookstore Antigone. I was able to get a lot of Brown's source material there, and went on from there. We have sure been bamboozled!!!!!

Nina_Dee 61F

7/13/2006 4:25 am

Very interesting.

puntachueca replies on 7/13/2006 2:30 pm:
Thabnks for reading my blog

rm_kelli4u2dew 41F
5220 posts
7/13/2006 10:00 am

puntachueca replies on 7/13/2006 4:25 am:
hell no. But that was one heck of a mind blowing article. I was raised both Jewish and Catholic and I remember as a kid all the brainwashing. Still getting over it.

Really? Mixed parents or are your ancestors from the Jews hiding from the Inquisition?

puntachueca replies on 7/13/2006 2:51 pm:
No. The real deal. My Catholic dad met my Jewish mother in DC during WWII. They got married and he went back to Texas, where this was receieved with the same favor as if he'd married a Black woman. Fifty years later this is still a scandal in my dad's family. After fighting over which way to raise us kids (went to parochial school weekdays and shul in Saturdays, they decided to "compromise" and we all became Methodists. I actually sand in the church choir, and was even baptised.

For a very long time I didn't "fit" anywhere...culturally mostly Jewish, but we didn't not have the limits of non-Jewish friends...still sort of rare. Fought that battle oin behalf of my daughters...my ex had to marry a Jew and I was minimally qualified... but my daughters were raised Jewish with their daddy teaching them about all the other ways... and they always had gentile friends. One daughter has married outside the religion much to the consternation of her mom and her grandmother....

We have a lot of Mariananos around here...obvious descendents of the Inquisition who got to America and became Catholic (and light candles on Friday night).

I'm kind of a product of the modern Inquisition. It took amazing courage of my parents to follow their love and marry outside their respective religions. The product...blended, but always on the "outside" of everyone else's safe little identity...part of the great "assimilation" where post Holocaust Jews tried to "pass"....something new now...a hybrid...that doesn't buy any of the bs cloaked in the dominant modern religions...going back and back to a better time when there was balance and love and respect for all living thnigs.

tracy_de_lacy 105F
9268 posts
7/13/2006 12:25 pm

I dont lend a lot of credence to the da vinci code except perhaps that mary was indeed the wife of jesus. My point has been slightly missed here. It is not my intention to educate anyone or give my opinion, I have just suggested where you might start to look for the answers. I believe that knowledge is power and that we each have a responsibility to ourselves to learn and seek the truth. Nobody can tell you the truth, e.g. brown, but they can lead ya to finding it for yourself.

Never forget it's your soul and its your right to know where you come from. The churches have manipulated religion for centuries for power and wealth...hiding scriptures was a favourite passtime. Ignore everyone who gives you their opinion and read the texts for your self and understand them your way. The sumerians wrote about a whole lot more than the goddess they believed there were many gods ...just like most other early cultures. Then you have to read the dead sea scrolls. We all know what the bible says..its a matter of reading the bits that were left out that make the difference. Just my tuppence worth.

Bye everyone, it was a blast

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