a response for mr. TTigerAtty  

mundarikos 40M
392 posts
5/16/2006 8:52 am
a response for mr. TTigerAtty

1 controlled response coming right up...
a few days ago a post extolling the virtues of the US was put up, when lips put up a polite comment about how perhaps some perspective was in order and the good ol' USA of may not be quite so good anymore with reference to foreign policy she was shouted down rudely by the owner of the blog. this person welcomed all external comments that said nice things about the states but decried all that were against.
anyway...
i got involved.... hehe... opionionated bastard that I am, and, forced to watch cnn and bbc news allday because its the only stuff in english thats not on star.
when i responded with my thoughs the result can be seen in the post that preceeded this.
i dont think i was rude... the first time.
others dont either.
I keep an eye on the two inflamatory posts and followed others thoughts...
one mans thoughts intrigued me... he had this to say...

"Erotica ... I'm 100% behind you. I support your comments back to mundarikos. It's amazing how stupid the left-wing, anti-American rhetoric can be. I won't dignify his rantings with any further comments, because it is obvious he already has his mind made up. As Americans, we will continue to stand together, and we will do the right things for our nation, and we will help other oppressed people when and where we can. The naysayers can just go wallow in their own pathetic ignorance and hatred. There will always be naysayers and there will always be people who understand what America is all about. Mr. mundarikos is a left-wing, anti-American idealogue who is beyond help."

ok... interesting... did you actually read what i wrote?
ignore the fact that my second comment was merely a response to "points" raised by its author.

tell me,is it anti american rhetoric to point out when someone says "The rest of the world is at war, always has been, always will be..." the tiny fact that "canada, australia, china, large portions of Europe not involved in this "coalition of the willing" and most of south america...well, they're not at war."

hmmm... is it anti american rhetoric to point out the way america ignores the abuses that go on in saudi?

i could go on... but i want more of your input... so, heres another comment of yours:

"Amen, Erotica! Glad to see another American stand up for America and Americans ... and yes, even for our current American leadership!"

good god man! amen? support for the actions of Bush??

here you go again, this time pointing out how youve dealt this our sort of disagreeable riff raff before:

"I saw the one America-bashing comment on saintlianna's blog which asked a simple hypothetical question. The person who made this anti-American comment has persistently made anti-American comments, and I, for one, get tired of hearing her very naive, left-wing, anti-American crap!"
And you finished by saying:
"Erotica ... We may get lambasted by those who hate America. To them, I say bring it on! I am not one bit ashamed of America. I am proud of all that she has done in the world. I honor all the brave Americans who have shed blood to defend America and many other freedom-loving people throughout this entire world. I will not be an apologist for America, Americans or our American government. For those of you who don't like it, you can kiss my RED, WHITE AND BLUE ass!"

quite the little patriot you are... something of a nationalist id guess... because you dont seem to recognize the failings of your government on the international stage in the last 6 years.

of course, then we come to my dilemma...
you were at papys diary and when asked:

What are your views on

PATRIOTISM

NATIONALISM


you said:
"I think its a good thing when we can each have a sense of pride in our own countries, but I also believe it behooves us all to remain ever vigilant and on guard for political leaders who would lead us in ill-advised directions."

hmmmmmm.... am the only one a little confused by your opinion, because, in the first few comments, you werent willing to listen to people who have had the vigilance to notice your political leaders leading you in ill advised directions. in fact you were denouncing those who may try and point that out as spouting left-wing anti american helpless something or others.

Mr Tiger, please, correct the impression that that your boat fills its sails with the bellows of the prevailing winds... youre not simply agreeing with the ladies EVERYTIME are you in the hope they may take a shine to you as a knight in shining armour?


look, you called me narrowminded, stupid,a left wing idealogue (think that last one is actually a compliment in most parts of the world), but, ive ignored that because all i wanted was to see some interesting political dialogue in, what was for some of us, a very inflammatory post, sadly, it appears that this wasnt possible as one cannot criticize the actions of your country without encountering the backlash of jingoistic nationalist fervour from across the pond.
you joined in this with personal insults and factually inaccurate proamerican rhetoric the likes of which, frankly, always gives us in Europe a bit of a giggle (freedom fries... hehe...)

theres a point id like to make... nobody actually asked me what i think of America! I alluded during my comments that i had once been a great fan of the states, im dissapointed in it now, im dissapointed in the American people voting in Bush again, but, as an incumbant it was alot closer than it should have been... some hope there...
im disappointed you impeached a president for lying about his extramarital affairs and not one who lied about there being a reason to invade another country.
Clinton, was by far and away, from an international point of view at least, a great president that led a country, had a global perspective, knew that long term peace comes through talking and healing not through the strength of one and subsequent defeat of another.

these are two of the international actions of YOUR government today:
you strengthened ties with libya. ok... pan am 103? we'll just forget their complicity in that because the plane fell on Scotland. forget the people still campaigning for justice there because... well, be honest, because your looking for allies in the middle east who'll keep the oil flowing so you can attack Iran. cynical.. me... maybe... lets see

Denouncing Venezeula...
yep, you denounced them today... why? well, you see, they have "terrorists" in their country who go in and disrupt US operations and support drug lords in Columbia... which is one of the states in youtr union... isnt it?... oh, no! that would be a country that you invaded because they grew something you didnt like. anyway, denouncing venezeula for harbouring so called terrorists on the same day you sweep under the carpet the pan am bombing to build political ties for oil and more war.


you my friend need to read, learn, wake up, see the rest of the world and accept your governments failings, then your nation can move forward on the international stage.

respectfully


saddletrampsk 54F

5/16/2006 10:12 am

Although I may not agree with TTA opinions, especially politics, I greatly respect him as a blogger on this site..I respect his opinions as I do yours..its all about free speech..great post..


rm_rareview 40F
568 posts
5/16/2006 11:02 am

they are deaf.

rareview


TTigerAtty 62M

5/16/2006 11:30 am

Mr. Mundarikos ...

I have dropped by your blog at your invitation, and I appreciate the cordial invitation you extended me over on my blog to do so. I want you to understand that had I not been specifically invited, I would not be here.

I appreciate this opportunity to comment further on your blog. You have copied some of my statements from another blog and continued your anti-American rantings. Evidently you are quite agitated. I get agitated too when I see people attacking my country, my government and my fellow Americans. So now, my friend, it seems that we are both agitated.

I will not disparage your countryland of Greece nor its people nor its political leaders nor you personally even though you have so elequently sought to disparage the USA, our political leaders and Americans, including me, who don't happen to agree with your particular world view. You have done this at Erotica's blog, here in this post on your blog and in at least one other post here on your blog. Whether you have made it a hobby of yours to make other disparaging "drive-by" remarks against my country, our political leaders and my fellow countrymen throughout Blogville, I do not know nor do I care to hazard a guess.

I will tell you this, however ... I'll thank you very much if you would accord the USA, its people and our political leaders the same courtesy and respect that I am according your country and other peace loving countries of the world. I have no particular bone to pick with you or anyone else here on these blogs. I will not engage in a lengthy discussion on these issues with you as you seem to already have everything that has gone on in the world all figured out and so neatly compartmentalized.

I stand by all statements you have recopied here and sought to attack and belittle. I have also commented on Papy's recent anti-American posting, and I stand by those remarks as well. Feel free to go there, recopy my comments and create yet another posting of anti-American rhetoric if you choose. Spend the rest of your natural life ranting against America if you so choose. Frankly, as long as the leftist of the world are crying foul, I will know that we are doing all the right things!

You and your type can complain all you want to about American foreign policy and U.S. leadership under President George W. Bush. Your rantings and protestations do not faze me nor would they faze many, many other Americans in the least. I proudly voted for President Bush twice, and I would vote for him a third time, if our U.S. Constitution allowed for it.

Lips says "Power Breeds Arrogance". It seems to me that liberalism and elitism are the forces in this world that breed arrogance. You and your cronies may want to examine your own arrogance before you go laying such an accusation upon the United States of America and her people!

Now, my friend, we have both have had our say. I will not change your opinions and you will certainly not change mine. Let us just agree to disagree. I hope we can become friends, and, at least, continue to exchange widely differing views.


mundarikos 40M
423 posts
5/17/2006 1:36 am

    Quoting LipsSayAll:
    Having dared first to confront nationalism in Erotica's post....and having followed through with many other comments that mostly fell on deaf ears, I feel spent...The only thing I want to repeat, cause it pretty covers what USA leadership and its spokespersons speak and act like is that, unfortunately, POWER BREEDS ARROGANCE...

    Great rambling post! Well done!

    Lips
cheers babes... it wont make the slightest bit of difference, opinions can be changed, beliefs not so easy to alter... sadly, these people believe in their current administration and its actions.
hopeless, i only hope a democrat gets in next and can attempt to undo the catastrophic damage done by this administration.
mouts


mundarikos 40M
423 posts
5/17/2006 1:39 am

    Quoting saddletrampsk:
    Although I may not agree with TTA opinions, especially politics, I greatly respect him as a blogger on this site..I respect his opinions as I do yours..its all about free speech..great post..
thanks for your comments saddle, you are a true diplomat.
truth be told, i enjoy immensely tta's poems as im sure a great many do, but, find it difficult to respect his politics or his actions in this matter. im sure it will all fade away though like last weeks afternoon soap episodes...
thanks and kisses


mundarikos 40M
423 posts
5/17/2006 1:43 am

den nomizoun fili mou... pistevoun oti einai ola kala!
vlameno paidia... elpizo oti kapia mera tha mathenoun.
pote tha kaneis ena post? perimenoume!
filakia


mundarikos 40M
423 posts
5/17/2006 2:15 am

Dear MR tiger...
we will have to agree to disagree, i wish it were possible to highlight to you (note i dont add "and your kind") the monumental failings with US foreign policy and the concerns of citizens of the world.

"You and your type can complain all you want to about American foreign policy and U.S. leadership under President George W. Bush. Your rantings and protestations do not faze me nor would they faze many, many other Americans in the least. I proudly voted for President Bush twice, and I would vote for him a third time, if our U.S. Constitution allowed for it."

this statement scares me... its called foreign policy because it involves the rest of the world! Your country is viewed by some nations, some of the more hostile nations, with their uninformed, government censored news and therefore knowledge, as speaking and leading the western world. y
ou have to respect treaties you have with other nations. s
ometimes when you go to war it forces others to who do not necessarily want to be any part in it.
you ransom them with threats of economic embargoes if they do not commit to a war they have no belief in...

please man, i beseech thee, can you not see this as just plain wrong???!!![/SIZE]

if a child bullies another child in a school, do you believe this should go unstopped, that the biggest id should be able to dictate to all the other kids? beat those it believes misbehaves and take away the lunch money of those that refuse to join in the beating?
this is what is happening on the international political stage with real people paying the price.

what change has there been in iraq? it really isnt better for the majority, its a hell of a lot worse.
What could your government have spent the 100's of billion of dollars the war has cost on instead?
the 20 best schools and 20 best hospitals in the world in your country instead?
well, thats really none of my business. neither is guns, healthcare or immigration policy... but i live outside the US and your foreign policy affects me, so ive every right to an opinion and so does everyone else!

one thing you seem to have missed in all your comments to me or mine is that:
im not Greek.
Im English.
yep, your allies.
when you went to war in Iraq we HAD to support you. we couldnt be like the french and the germans and say bollocks to you.
Its our troops there with you, its british blood being shed as well as US.
People i know are serving there too!
its the british taxpayer who foots a portion of this bill and I was so disgusted with my government and its actions to such an extent that it contributed to my leaving my homeland.
I have the courage of my convictions both in action and in words.

so do you know what, i definitely have the right to comment on US foreign policy and to enter into debate with those who post such pro US propaganda!
if people choose o use this site to post something serious, an opinion on a serious issue, they should expect comment, if they cant respect that comment and justify there position without resorting to name calling and rhetoric then they shouldnt post the re opinion in the first place.

i believe this matter should be allowed to peter out, but, im afraid I could never be friends with a man so obtuse and unwilling to hear and consider the points of others.

regards


idoljane 43F
117 posts
5/18/2006 3:29 am

a thoughful post and thoughtful responses. shame the opposition are just no willing to hear any points.
dont let it get to you hon!
some people prefer to keep their heads in the sand and not see what right in front of their noses

Idol


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