Troubled Children  

flagg134 36M
1430 posts
4/24/2006 9:05 pm

Last Read:
4/29/2014 10:37 am

Troubled Children


5 kids in Kansas and six kids in Alaska have been arrested for plotting to kill their fellow students. The Kansas plot was interrupted only because one of the boys discussed the plan on MySpace. Apparently he'd mentioned Hitler's birthday, the anniversary of the Columbine shooting and, black trenchcoats. These boys ranged in age from 16 to 18, and had been hatching this plan since the beginning of the school year. Up in Alaska, the students involved were seventh graders. They were going to disable the power and the telephones so they'd have time to kill as many people as they could. In this case, a parent who learned of the plot alerted the authorities. In both cases the accused students were boys that had been picked on. Its always the quiet ones you have to watch out for they say.

It's obvious that this is something that we as a society have to deal with. It's also obvious that not a whole lot has been accomplished since 1999, when the two Columbine boys took out 13 people in addition to themselves. After that episode people began to holler about gun control, school curriculums were going to add "anti-bully" programs, parents were going to be advised of problems. Has anything changed because of this? Probably not considering these two failed attempts. Regarding gun control, if it becomes more difficult to purchase a gun, then only those that know where to go will be able to buy one. I know enough people of a shady character that if I wanted to, I could buy an uzi. Almost everyone could if they wanted to. As for kids bullying other kids, well, the schools alone cannot fix or address a problem that large also kids usually don't like speaking up about it. Can this be addressed of course no one can truly prevent it from happening completely though. Its a sad world we live in when children get hurt so bad they consider an assault of this magnitude and can find the means to carry it out.

RF

sassybelle21 32F
13313 posts
4/24/2006 9:42 pm

MySpace is a terrible website So many crimes related to MySpace kids.


curvymeli 39F

4/24/2006 10:59 pm

Schools have made a big effort to talk to kids about bullying and educate them and let them know that they have people to talk to and an out. I see it bc my neices are in 6th and 3rd grade and they come home with all kinds of paperwork and we talk about bullies and stuff, and they are even willing to discuss it at the time of year (it happens a couple times a year, actually).

But when I was a kid I got abused for a long time by my peers, really badly, and I felt that I had no one to turn to. The bus driver didn't do anything, so it felt like the school failed me. Other parents at the bus stop didn't do anything, so it felt like they condoned the behavior. Telling my parents would have meant getting blamed by my mother (I thought) and jail for my father (he would have tried to kill the people I think) and it just wasn't worth it.

I think adults nowadays need to take a lot more resposibility for the lives children lead. It is incredibly hard and lonely to be a child on the bottom of the social ladder. No one seems to care about you. Teasing and tormenting is worse than ever and with no safe person to turn to even the strongest can break.

Anyone can find the means to accomplish the sickest of deeds, but the real tragedy is the child who, with all of the rest of life's infinite splendor ahead, finds the desperation to follow through with it.


themisskrissy 56F
2302 posts
4/25/2006 12:01 am

when you have the most obnoxious parents screaming nasty and abusive stuff from the stands of childrens sports you gotta wonder...
bullying needs to be dealt with by the parents long before kids ever get to school... i don't beleive it is the school's job to RAISE the kids...
and george w creates more single parent homes... the kids lose out...


Virtue Alone Ennobles


phoenix639 49F

4/25/2006 3:39 am

Krissy the way that reads is as if youre saying its mainly single parent homes were problems are vast. I dont think you mean it to come through like that though do you?


nightstalker172 36M
1258 posts
4/25/2006 6:08 am

Sigh...ah yes...highschool I remember those days....As a member of the 'Lower end' of the socail ladder. I know that so many people might disagree with me on this but in my exspeince with said bullies there is only 1 thing they will ever understand....PAIN. Now Im not saying that voilence is the best thing to do its not...BUT its the only way to get through to 99% of them. You can sit there and counsel all you want. Bullies will continue to be that way until they learn the hard lesson from PAIN. Now I always kept to myself never bothered anyone...I never strived to fit in with the 'in crowd' Never liked them. I was content with being left alone. I prefered it most of the time and I only let a select few who I felt were worth knowing to be around me or get close to me. Everyone else was scum to me pretty much. I detested them and what they represented and how they treated others who for lack of a better word were not strong enough to stand up for themselves. I may not have been popular but you didnt fuck with me either. Now Im not saying that a kid should punch another kid in the mouth for name calling...thats stupid...(and honestly if name calling is going to bother you and make you cry then you need to stop being a pansey ass.) Only when the bully gets physical first should the victim get physical back. You may get your ass kicked that much is true. In which case you better improve on your fighting skills until you dont get your ass kicked anymore. It would be nice if talking things out could get things done. But rarely does it ever help...If said bully gets told on and gets sat down for a talking to guess what...the tattler is going to get his ass kicked for it anyway. IMHO the best way a parent could help is by getting the kid self defense lessons..

Now I know voilence only begets more voilence...Or you shouldnt sink to their level...yes the reputation of an easy target is always nice...just let everyone walk all over you and eventually you will snap and be in a bell tower somewhere picking off people...

I find it interesting though how everyone blaims the parents for not doing their job...The problem is the GOVERNMENT doesnt allow parents to do their job...When I was younger and misbehaved I got an ass whoopin. Nowadays they tell parents to sit there and ground them or take things away from them or put them in time out....and for some children that works...for the problem kids like I said...PAIN is all they understand...Im not saying that parents should beat them to a pulp thats not right either but an old fashioned spanking might put some of these damn kids in line. Instead the GOVERMENT give all sorts of rights and power to the kids to protect them...which is good...but when kids realize they have this power what does it do...'I can do whatever I want no one can stop me. Hell I can kill someone and get away with it as long as Im young enough' I think it teachs them to be responsible with their actions and know that there is going to be a punishment if they do something wrong. But You have to find the balance. You should never spank your kids out of anger. Send them to their room to await punishment until you are calm and collected...(Thats what would happen to me) But it taught me to listen to my parents and respect them...as I got older I heeded their advice more...(Granted I admit sometimes I didnt listen...what they didnt know didnt hurt them ) Now as for older kids spanking a 12 year old is rather silly....In which case treating them more like an adult I think is the route to go...finding something they love and takeing it away often works. Say a PS2 for exsample...or computer time etc...make so they only can sit in their room and drool while staring at the ceiling...If you are going to ground them...might as well make it worth while and not take just one thing away but ALL things away...I dont understand why parents say...oh you cant play your PS2 but you can watch TV...WTF good does that do?..OH WOW what a punishment...To me thats about as good as the parent shooting themselves in the foot..

In a perfect world we would all get along...but this world is FAR from perfect.


rm_SultryVirgo 48F
567 posts
4/25/2006 8:15 am

Christ you have knack for bringing up interesting issues, except I have only had two cups of coffee at this point, so it may or may not make a hell of alot of sense!

As a Canadian I have a much different take on the issue. It's a great big lie that we don't have guns in this country we do, lots of them. However we don't seem to have the problem of gun violence or school violence that the U.S. seems to have. We have it, just not on the same scale. There are many reason's we don't seem to have it, none of which I'm about to go into here, I will end up writing a 20 page dissertation on the socio economic issues, tied in with the overall attitude difference in how Canadians and American's view their obligation's towards their own countries and the people who live in them.

Bullying is another issue one of which I can address since I happen to be raising two boys, 9 and 11. My oldest had a problem with bullies last year, two larger and older children going after him. Now I happen to notice very quickly that he was having some sort of problem, he became very quite, very withdrawn, not wanting to go to school, not doing his homework, marks took a nose dive from one report card period to another. This is A typical behavior for a child that is being bullied, I know because the minute I noticed these changes I started asking a few questions. Trust me at first it was not easy to find out from him what was going on, he did not want to tell me. But that child has a mother who is relentless when it comes to finding out the truth about something. Not to mention the fact that I WILL BE DAMNED if I'm going to let my child flounder on his own, I am his mother therefore I am his Grizzly bear.

I went to the school and saw the principal, then I went and talked to the student counselor, then I started raising shit all over the place!!! Now I am lucky my children go to a school that is small all things considered and being in a community that lets say, has a school board that pays attention because of the amount I pay in property taxes did help. Now they did have and still do have a zero tolerance on bullying, however if the school is not made aware that a child is being bullied they can't do anything to stop it. Once I made them aware of the problem, those involved had immediate, and very harsh consequences dealt out to them. It even went so far as to have the parents of the children involved in a meeting with me, and an appointed advocate for my child provided by the school. Problem solved, there have been no further issues in last year, my child is back to his normal behavior, the one child who was doing the bullying is actually now considered quite a good student. A win, win situation in the end.

A few things, there has to be a will on the part of the parent of the child who is being bullied to find out what that problem is and stand up for your child. If the school will not do anything, you take it to the school board, if the school board will not do anything you take it to the media, with a lawyer. Had I not paid attention to my child he could have spent the rest of his school life building hate and resentment towards other kids, and maybe, just maybe I could have lost him forever, not to mention other parents losing their kids. I did my job as a parent and would done more had I needed to. Kids don't go off the rails for the hell of it, they do it as a reaction to something my job as a parent is to make sure when they do, I put them back on the rails no matter what I have to do. If my child had been the one doing the bullying and I was told, that kid wouldn't know what hit him. Being grounded until he is 18 would have only been the start, therapy, hell military school would have been on the horizon, not to mention a mother that questioned his every move on a day to day basis.

The school can only do what it needs to do if they know it's happening. IF they don't know, then they can't put a stop to it. It's a parents job to make sure that their children get the attention they need to make the right decisions, and I did all that as a single mom. By the way the parents of the kids who did the bullying, one set sent their child to a counselor, the other did not. The child who didn't get the help however has been flagged by the school, his behavior is monitored in a subtle way by the school, and as a result because he is still being caught bullying, is facing the prospect of going to a "special" placement for next year. I know this because school board meetings are on public record, and because I made the school aware, they must inform me as to what is being done, otherwise they face legal action from me. Now I have a very good school board to work with, many are not so lucky. However anything can be stopped if we as parents take the time to find out what is going on with out kids.

I teach my children how to stand up for themselves using the tools that are provided, I don't let them solve their problems on their own if they can't. Nor do I teach them to solve their problems with violence unless they have no choice, I have told them and taught them how to fight back, and should the time ever arrive that they have to use force, I trust they will know what to do. But that does not mean that I can turn them loose without some guidance as to when that force should be used.

Moral of the story, parents must raise their children and not leave them to try and figure out something, without first giving them the tools on how to solve the issue. It's called raising the child and doing what I'm supposed to do, teach them how to be civilized and not an animal.

Sultry


themisskrissy 56F
2302 posts
4/25/2006 1:24 pm

no, i didn't RF.. not at all..... sorry it came off that way.
kids with guns is a very deeply painful and personal issue to me...

single parent homes are a part of the problem, sadly it is unavoidable and a cruel reality that so many kids are raised in day cares, or substandard areas because the parent has to work or try and survive on welfare... i feel for single parents..... the system effs them too... and the children suffer for it..... and the war machine makes more all the time...
instead of preaching that there be prayer in the classroom, and spending billions to kill other children halfway around the world the US government could put more into helping parents be there to raise their children...
another issue, if you look at other cultures where the elders are revered and live with their adult children you will see kids much better behaved.... they have the teachings and growth support of the older people.. the family unit is a unit!
western culture shunts gramma and grandpa off to florida or a nursing home... i was raised to believe in our elders teachings about right and wrong....


Virtue Alone Ennobles


flagg134 36M
1582 posts
4/25/2006 4:06 pm

Some good comments here I am glad I brought it up even as the situation can not be completely avoided it can be stifled from occuring to often though. The root of it is that the children become bullied and can't seem to find another way out.

Meli and Night

I was on the bottom of the social ladder as well for a long time. Like you meli I had been singled out and really had no one to turn to. My parents weren't much of a help my father never cared and my mother cared but was pretty much controlled by him. As I grew into middle school though I learned to ignore insults or flip them around into jokes. Still I made a select few my friends the rest were shallow and cruel people. Highschool I mainly kept to myself as my friends all went seperate ways I remained pretty much a loner but nobody felt the need to bother me.

Violence when pressed upon you has to be dealt with its true that it only begets more. Though if you do make a stand you get more respect I don't believe in starting fights though sometimes the need arises.

Sultry

You are right as most school systems this happens in tend to be small. They generally can take more action and pay more attention to individual cases. I applaud you for the way you handled your sons situation. Nothing can be done about a situation if nobody voices it. Actions like these are usually desperate cries for attention it should never reach that point. There are numerous warning signs as you said they become withdrawn stop showing up for class and their grades fall as a result.

Unfortunately some school systems are undermanned and these children fall through the cracks. Where I live is a prime example many kids fall into gangs as a way to protect themselves there is really no way to keep an eye on everything that goes on either as there are over 30 students to every member of faculty. Many kids live in homes where the parents don't care about them and see them as a welfare and or child support check. Its parents like these who deserve to never procreate it just starts a vicious cycle as the kid has no other perspective than the way he was raised. They end up taking the easy way out joining gangs dropping out and developing drug habits.

I agree with your moral completely without the guidance to see right from wrong and the tools to tackle life. It becomes a difficult journey for the child to stay on track.

Krissy

I didn't take it that way Krissy though I agree with that point to a degree. It not always being the parents fault as they have to struggle just to take care of the child. It is all about the way the child is raised whether they will become bullies because of home neglect or the oppressed as a victim. That doesn't get noticed because no one can find the time. Sometimes these things are out of the parents control as they are single and have to work 2 or 3 jobs just to survive. The US government does make provisions to help out largely though these are barely enough survive upon as the goal with these is to force the person into self sufficiency. What they should offer is classes that can show them the warning signs and how to deal with situations to those willing to take them.

RF


flagg134 36M
1582 posts
4/25/2006 8:38 pm

GRRR I wrote a book and it dissapeared hopefully it will pop up 2 weeks later. I'll keep this one shorter as I need some sleep. First of all Thank you all for the comments very good points.

NIGHT and MELI

I was an outsider while I was growing up I never really had to deal with a bully just insults which got to me when I was young. Eventually I learned to ignore it I still remained pretty much a loner throughout school though. I know that the school is working to make the kids aware what I think needs to be done is that they keep more of an eye on it though. Even though kids know the pressure of facing a thrashing could prevent them from speaking up. Violence is only the answer when presented with it otherwise there are otherways around it I was in my share of scuffles as a kid it helped to earn respect.

Sultry

I commend you for the way you handled your sons situation. If only more parents would take the time to get involved with their kids lives their would be less occurences of this. Basically I think kids who becom bullies are victims within their home. They don't recieve the attention and love they need there so they take it out on others. Obviously when a problem is brought to light like what you did it sends a message to the bullies parents hopefully to change their behavior. What happens when people don't see the warning signs is kids developing social angst and resentment of the people around them. Which gets dangerous real quick. Parents have to learn to observe the warning signs within their kids to take action where they are afraid to before it hurt their development and potentially damage lives.

Krissy

I didn't think that at all although you are right a big problem is the family as a whole are not staying together very often. This can leave children in a state of flux growing up in daycare. Then coming home from school alone because the parent has to work 2 or 3 jobs to get by. Unfortunately the government here doesn't offer alot of help as they expect you run through hoops spend days waiting and coming up with all kinds of documents. It always seems that the ones that are bilking the system get the most help. Sad but true. What they should do is try to set up classes to teach some parenting skills to find the warning signs of a discontent child and nip it in the bud. Hopefully things will get better in time it seems to be a hope against hope though.

RF


Hippink 35F
4499 posts
4/25/2006 9:12 pm

I can see I am of the same species as Sultry: Grizzly Bear. Anyone tries to harm my child (or if he tried to harm anyone else)....
WATCH OUT!!!!

Like Nightstalker said... some kids will only learn through pain. What I mean by this, is kids have to be made to understand WHY it's not nice to hit or taunt or say mean things. When my child kept pulling my hair, I taught him that it hurts by gently pulling his hair until it started to hurt, so he got the idea. He hits me, so I tap his hand, he understands it hurts. Reasoning with him, with gentle demonstration seems to be working. He's only 3, almost 4. I also ask him about confrontations with his friends at day care. This has to be taught at a young age.

Kids don't always understand that what they do harms others. They don't get sympathy or empathy. They don't understand how precious life is, how fragile, how final death is.

Just the other day, a few hour's drive from here, a family (mother, father, and 9 yr old brother) were found killed.... by the 12 yr old daughter who had the help of her 23 yr old boyfriend whom she met on a vampire cult site. One day, that girl is going to grow up and realize the horrible finality of what she did and have to live with the knowledge of what she did for the rest of her life.

What kids are missing is FEELING. Hmmm... this is very similar to what I was trying to put out there in my "Crash" blog. People are too selfish, they don't see things from others' persective, they don't realize others have feelings. They're numb.

If you haven't watched Michael Moore's documentary about Columbine, DO SO. He made a very intersting observation about what may be causing all the gun-related deaths: FEAR. Canada has an awful lotta guns here, too. We don't go around shooting people anywhere near as often.
Hippie XXX


nightstalker172 36M
1258 posts
4/25/2006 10:47 pm

Flagg - I found out something interesting. If you use quotation marks in your post it will cut off at the first quotation. I dont know why I had the same problem too...somethings wrong with the coding...So if you did than chances are its lost and you'll have to retype it....sucks dont it...Just thought Id let you know.


SolarPowered0 67M
8018 posts
4/26/2006 9:54 am

Go back 40-50 years and see how many kids took to wasting their peers at random. What? You mean you can't find any incidents of that kind? Wonder why not?!

Maybe it's because it's only been in the past 30-40 years where "discipline" has become a negatively defined word? I can tell you this... no kid of my generation would have thought of something this bizarre - they wouldn't have lived long enough to plan it, let alone carry it out.

I could write 10 books on why it happens and who's "individually" responsible. The fact is though, we are ALL responsible! Until such time we, as a society, get our priorities straight and realize that kids need to have the crap kicked out of them when their "unique thinking" goes "astray", we are never going to stop this kind of thing - it will only get worse.

Guess that's the price we pay for a neat and tidy life of leisure... with our six-pack a day tranquilizers and our 500 channels of revenue enhancing propaganda. But, there ain't no "conspiracy" going on around here, is there? Wake up, people... and smell the decay of civilization wafting through the "air-waves" and the halls of our "schools"; all the while the "Real Power" is shit on and tread into the dust of the fallacy of modern man believing that "the love of money is NOT the root of all kinds of evil."

Solar... (out of the clear blue of the Western Sky)


cactusass 55F

4/26/2006 3:00 pm

I think so much of it has to do with never there, never care, mom's and dad's. some parents just rely too much on schools, day cares etc. to do the parenting. i disagree somewhat with the missykrissy on the single parent issue. i don't believe that being a single parent or a parent on financial assistance necessarily increases the chances of a child becoming violent, behavioral issues or breaking the law. i believe it is one's commitment, love and constructive discipline to the child that makes the difference. also the n.r.a. doesn't help things either.
jmho
peace.


themisskrissy 56F
2302 posts
4/26/2006 3:50 pm

sorry Pat, i erred....the post i referred to was from Phoe....

i love MIcheal Moore!!!

i recall my dad talking about a bully when he was in school in the 30's.. they have always been around.. i went to high school with the 3 bitches..they bullied everyone that wasn't trim and blond and a cheerleader...
schools are powerless, parents are often powerless... look at the blog by HP the other day about kids rights.. unless structure and discipline at home comes back we are sunk!!!!!!! and thats does not mean beating your children..
real consequences for misdeeds.....
i go back to my original post here.... how can kids learn when some have parents screaming obscenities from the bleachers to the ref and telling their kids to kill kill kill!!!
sad...


Virtue Alone Ennobles


flagg134 36M
1582 posts
4/26/2006 4:01 pm

Hippie: I believe you hit the nail on the head with the empathy thing. Children learn by example so they can't understand how another feels when they see the parents doing the same. You know the old saying do as I say not as I do. That rarely works as children will always try to go against what you say and they will have the excuse. It was ok for you to do so why can't I. People need to think more on how others feel and the consequences of their actions. To often we act without thinking. People should take more time to reflect on how they affect others.

Solar: Very good point discipline has become a word of the past. We have become overly worried that all we should spread to the kids is positive reinforcement scared to hurt their egos. Parents rights have been stripped they shouldn't have to live in fear of their own kids.

Of course something can be done about it its not gonna be done by one man alone though. Things have changed in the past Ie: Womens Rights and segregation even now immigrants are trying to fight for the right to stay here. If enough people voice their opinion and get together there is a chance for change. Unfortunately we have become a culture of apathy happy with our own lives as long as things don't affect us. To worried about our own lives to be bothered with others till a martyr comes along then people become involved if only for a short while. People should start realizing problems before they grow out of control and someone ends up hurt irreperably.

RF


SolarPowered0 67M
8018 posts
4/26/2006 6:57 pm

A child learns by association. If they associate "bad" things with pain and/or fear, they are less likely to pursue "bad" things. A child cannot be taught "fear" (reverence) past the age of about 3-4 years. Pain can be recognized at most any age, but is much less effective when using it for "moral" persuasion. Fear (reverence) is the secret. Teach a child to fear authority and they will not challenge it until they are "capable of rationalizing" the challenge instead of doing so simply because they will not "suffer" the consequences of doing so.

DBG...

How, exactly, does the NRA generate the psychopathic mind which perpetrates such acts as Columbine? I cannot see how promoting the "right" to weapons is the same as allowing a sick mind to flourish unattended by any restraint.

Flagg...

I was involved back in 1995-96 with the same issues and problems of "ILLEGAL" immigration. I won't take up that much space here to elaborate. Suffice to say... it cost me a bankruptcy and contributed to my divorce. In the end, I did accomplish one thing: I learned there are only 37 people in the entire country willing to do anything about anything. However, over the past ten years, that number has dwindled to merely 19.

As for voting? California voters passed PROP 187 back in '94. Of course, the Federal 9th district court ruled that the duly "democratized" law could not be codified - unconstitutional, doncha know?! I believe their premise for over-ruling was the general welfare clause of the Preamble. Yet, all the law was designed to do was to prevent tax dollars being spent for "illegal" persons' medical and other welfare expenses. Ever try to get government money for your needs? Good luck. Now, if you WEREN'T a citizen, you wouldn't have much of a problem - especially here in the 9th district! And since when is the Constitution construed to prevent the PEOPLE!? It has ALWAYS been interpreted as the law over the GOVERNMENT - not the law over the PEOPLE... until the last 30-40 years - just about the same period it became a "crime" to punish children. But, there ain't no conspiracy goin' on 'round here!

Solar... (out of the clear blue of the Western Sky)


nightstalker172 36M
1258 posts
4/26/2006 9:08 pm

*pops head up* is someone blaiming the NRA for Incidents like Columbine....Dont even get me started ont he gun control BULLSHIT ok...NRA doesnt so anything to promote violence in schools...As the say goes Guns dont kill people, people kill people. What is a gun? It is a Tool. A man made tool for Killing that is its purpose. Who made such a TOOL...MAN DID..ok...Now of course there are other uses for guns such as hunting. But restricting guns does not help anything. People will get them no matter what...I think registration and such is good but what good is anything else. Do you honestly think that making a AK-47 (which is a weapon MADE for WAR) illegal is going to stop gang bangers from getting them and useing them?....HAS IT? The problem isnt the firearms its the people who have them. When I was 4 years old I held my first firearm. It was a .22 pistol. I was curious about it when I saw my mother cleaning it. She taught me that it was a dangerous tool that could hurt someone or myself so I never touched it and that was the end of it. I was taught how to hold a gun properly, How to never take a persons word for it being loaded or unloaded always check the weapon yourself. If people are properly trained and taught what a gun is for accidents wont happen as much. But some parents think its better to keep it quiet and then when kids stumble on said weapon they think of it as more of a toy that a tool.

A gun is a simple tool and it does have but one purpose and that is to kill man and animal alike. Im sorry but protecting myself and the lives of my family from the crazy people who like to kill for whatever reason..and sometimes killing them first is the only way. When people as a whole can actaully get along in peace...then you can have my gun....until then...no touchy.

I think Solar hit the nail on the head BTW...


Hippink 35F
4499 posts
4/27/2006 7:11 am

Oh, of course that is correct. Guns don't kill people... people kill people.

Guns just make it a hell of a lot easier.
Guns take all the effort, thought, premeditation and personal involvement out of killing. You can do it from afar.

I'd be willing to bet that an awful lot of murders by gun wouldn't have happened if the killer had to use a knife instead.
Hippie XXX


flagg134 36M
1582 posts
4/27/2006 4:13 pm

Solar I will agree with you the note about there being nobody willing to do anything it is sad just how badly we have been cowed by complacency. With the thinking that oh as long as it doesn't affect me personally what should I care. Then when something effects them no one else stands up for them its a vicious cycle.

On reverence I have to disagree just from my personal experience I'm not going to say it doesn't work for others. My father did hit me when I was 3-4 years old it taught me tolerance not reverence. I learned not to fear it but to deal with it. Maybe I was just a twisted child. It ended up I did a lot to subvert my father if he would ask me not to do something I would do it as I didn't fear wrath. As I got older all he could do was punish me which I got around every time. If I didn't I wouldn't have learned any lessons my parents attempted to keep me sheltered and controlled I had none of it.

Also I have to agree with Hippie guns are a tool an all to efficient one though. They should be more heavily regulated. Its so much easier going thru a murder using a gun cleaner. It takes real concerted effort to stab, choke or beat someone to death. I don't think they should take away the right to bear arms however I stand by this country needing better controls on the sale of arms. The more guns out there the more chance of a catastophe it's as simple as that.

RF


nightstalker172 36M
1258 posts
4/27/2006 8:13 pm

Flagg - Aside from the regulation that is already in place what else would you have done to regulate the purchase of said firearms? There is really not much else that can be done...They can crack down better on selling arms illegally...but thats a war thats about as effective as keeping drugs off the street.


flagg134 36M
1582 posts
4/28/2006 7:15 pm

I'm not sure of the regulations in your state I know that most states have it set where they run a check through the NICS which usually takes only minutes after that they register the gun in triplicate.

Here in NY you have to jump through hoops to purchase a weapon if you want a handgun you have to wait at least 5 days. You also need to be licensed to use it on top of what is left from the Brady bill. All I'm saying is to make it harder to purchase one the more that are out there the easier it is going to purchase one illegally. Also here assault weapons are banned for usage by the public and it would be pretty hard to hide something that large. Most gun crimes are committed with handguns I don't think they should take away the right to bear arms just not to let it happen so easily.

RF


nightstalker172 36M
1258 posts
4/30/2006 7:19 am

Flagg - Whoa only 5 days?...here in washington you have to wait 15 days to purchase a hand gun (used to be 30 days)...However a rifle you can take home same day. In order to get a permit to carry you have to take a 8 hour training class first...As far as asault weapons that is true...most crimes are commited with smaller arms but drive bys and such thats when they get the automatics out...and a gun smith can turn a semi-auto hand gun into an automatic...actaully all you need is a book on the type of gun you have and a novice can do it...Personaly I think what they should do is make it mandatory to get gun safety trainging before you purchase ANY fire arm....I mean they do it with cars...why not guns right...thats my opinion...


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