Tired of "America-Bashing?"  

clevergirl4U 58F
1461 posts
4/4/2006 9:23 am

Last Read:
4/10/2006 4:23 pm

Tired of "America-Bashing?"


I wrote the following as a COMMENT on another of my posts. (No, I don't ALWAYS write one page comments ) If you DO read the original post titled "May I?", PLEASE do NOT go after the man who caused my head to spin Exorcist-style! After lots of good discussion on the post, it has been "put to bed" between us, and yes that is figurative, mostly because he lives in Norway. But a lot of what I wrote bears repeating for its discussion points, in general. I wrote this in response to his writing me that Katrina was "justice" because of America's policies re: the environment, and that he and his countrymen "could barely supress a smile" over Katrina.

My COMMENT to him:

*******************


Since this is MY blog, I will always get the final word A joke....you are free to continue, or not. I do have some relevant points that I want to add to the discussion.

Although AdultFriendFinder is a sex site, the discussions that take place in the Blogs here are much different than those that might take place in the general site. Most people end up creating a Blog here and joining the blogging community because they are disillusioned with the general site for a variety of reasons. That we are attached TO a sex site tends to make for more open-minded and less inhibited discussion. That a person JOINS AdultFriendFinder to begin with is an indication that they are someone who "colors outside the lines" and are open to creating new kinds of relationships that may differ from societal "norms." SOME discussions that take place here are quite serious. Others are goofy and irreverent. Diversity personified. The post that I originally wrote, "The Straws That Break The Camels Back" and that launched this discussion, was obviously a serious post written on a subject about which I had strong feelings...it was not a "tits and ass" piece, and so to ask people to "lighten up" in reaction to your comments is unrealistic. Since you don't write a Blog, I can understand why you were not aware of the differences between the general site and the blogging community. It is somewhat of an anomaly

When those outside of America address an individual American, why do they feel that they are talking to the entire country, including the American government? The U.S. is not some huge seething mass of evil, like the Incredible Hulk, bent on destroying the planet for the rest of you. This county's size is NOTHING compared to its diversity. Yes, we have states large enough for Norway to get LOST in. We are the size of all of Europe and the Middle East combined. But this country was created by just a few individual states who wanted very little power given to the federal government. The only reason we conceded that we needed a strong federal government at all, is that we recognized the need for a national military to control criminal acts of civil disobedience. We fought a Civil War over states right's. And although we are united under one flag, and HAVE to act as one entity on the international front for the sake of national security, there are many, many, many different voices coming from many different regions of this country.

The environmental lobby in this country outstrips the entire population of Norway. But it competes with MANY other voices to be heard. Please try and keep all of this in mind when you broach a conversation with an American individual...we are not all spokesmen for the Republican administration! And even those who agree with and support President Bush most likely don't agree with every single administration policy. Considering our sheer size and incredible diversity, I think we are doing a remarkable job of holding it all together as a country, ESPECIALLY while in an environment where we are free to say anything we want, INCLUDING criticizing our government!

Katrina. I did NOT want my Blog to become a Katrina Blog...it is an ASPECT of me that I occasionally discuss, but I am much more than a survivor of the hurricane. There are days when I don't want to face the day-to-day reality of recovery from Katrina, and come here to ESCAPE for awhile. From that Katrina post I guess I can understand why you would think my losses minimal and I also have NO idea how much news coverage Katrina got in Norway. Without going into great detail, I will say that it was about a LOT more than going without power and running water for 2 months. Part of my house broke off and so we were was exposed to the elements. My son got very sick and there were no doctors available, or hospitals open. Two friends died with 2 weeks of the storm because there were no medical facilities. My beloved dog was killed. Four trees landed on my house, so I slept looking at the stars and fighting off the mosquitoes that are a part of this climate. Armed scavengers were looting and I had to sleep with a shot gun. I had no way to communicate with the outside world. My car was destroyed and I pooled with two other families to find supplies.I lost my job, as did over half of the population. Zero income. The house sustained $60,000 in damage of which insurance will only pay for a third. I spent ALL of my retirement funds having 40 trees plus debris removed from the property because insurance does not cover a tree that does not hit the house and FEMA can not come on private property to remove trees. My ex husband lost EVERYTHING, including his home. I am a 47 year-old single mother trying to put a broken life back together. And I am living in a community surrounded by people who suffered far greater losses than I did. I think that knowing this, you can understand why having you write me that some in Norway saw this as some kind of "justice" and "couldn't supress a smile" was very repugnant to me and provoked my angry response.

You obviously have some strong opinions and feel passionately about a variety of issues. Perhaps you should start writing a Blog? And for god's sake GET DRESSED when you visit me (See my post "The Eight Dick Salute".)

********************


I am so tired of the anti-American sentiment, especially when it is directed at me, who is only one of millions of American individuals. Do I have an "Amen?"

twirly_girl 47F

4/4/2006 11:14 am

Amen sister!

-Nikki


rm_4wolfsr 57M

4/4/2006 1:15 pm

For any one anywhere to say that human beings "deserve" to suffer is totally irrational, even inhumane. Even to say that America is the source of all the world's problems is equally irrational. The problems in the Middle East have been going on since long before this country was founded, even in Asia and Southeast Asia, the feudalism has been going on before the birth of Christianity. To state that American's "deserve" the wrath of Katrina is the same as saying the people of Sri Lanka "deserved" to get wiped out by a tsunami or the people of India and Pakistan "deserve" to get wiped out by typhoons.


rm_Rovakin 44M

4/4/2006 1:33 pm

A lot to comment on there.

Let me start by making my apology official: I have been rude and I am sorry!

And let me add: I live in a country who is getting (stinking) rich from selling oil to the world - and who furthermore has a (stinking) tradition of supporting the policies of usa.
If there is blame, then it most certainly is on me to...

Now, I do love "the american democratic experiment", and I do love your constitution - and I belive both have failed, or at least that they are strugeling for their life.

I love Adorno! (The media/social sciences scolar who escaped a dictature, only to discover another.)
And I love Philgar, Chomsky and Moore (in that order) - but maybe most of all I love Hunter S. Thompson (RIP, my friend, RIP)

The "a few weeks without power", that was me being rude. I know better, and I am sorry!

And you are right about me comming here for sex. I am having a second youth (eh, actally it is nr five), and I am exploring...
Now, some days ago I was surfing the site. Finding "serious" blogs here ... well, that was a source of amazement to me. I even saw a guy posting that he was saving himself for marriage (don't remember the term) - like, where does he think sex happens? In his dick?
Anyway, what was a suprise to me was the fact that you all are willing to pay this much for blogging. I mean, why not on a free site?
Thank you for your explanation on this, it makes sense. And it is a bit sad. You have to go to a sex site to find people who are intelligent and relaxed? That sort of confirms some of my worst thoughts on your nation. God, guns and gays, wasn't it? (No, I'm not criticising you, you have my most sincere pity on this.)

But I will not get dressed. You can ask me to leave, and I will, but there is no way I'm putting clothes on!
I am a hellbent sexomaniac on a mission from Dog - and I have my pride.

And, finally, it was nice to meet you!

The Toad


rm_Rovakin 44M

4/4/2006 2:13 pm

Now, wait a minute!

valleyrat4:
Millions of illegal immigrants trying to get in because you have something worth risking life and limb for?
How about "food"?
And why do they have lack of food?
How about "US politics"?

4wolfsr:
"The problems in the Middle East have been going on since long before this country was founded"?
Blog you, that is just stupid!
Lets talk about the last fifty years;
How US supported the sha of Iran. Until the dictators (US-supported) genocide got so heavy that the people revolted and Khomeini got into power.
How US then (literary) made Saddam Hussein and put him into power with the promise that he could have kuwait if he went to war and beat the ayatollah. He got all the legal and illegal weapons he asked for (yes, thats where he got his chemical weapons from), and the war lasted for eight years.
How that makes US directly responsible for the genocide of 180 000 civilian kurds that Saddam now is put to court for. Yes I'm talking about the kurds living on the border between Iraq and Iran.
How Saddam then took Kuwait - because that was what he had been promised.
And then, and then, and then ... well you have at least 33 800 confirmed civilian deaths in your latest war (www.iraqbodycount.net)
And this is only two of the countries in the middle east...

Want me to go on? Then lets take this discussion elsewhere!


clevergirl4U 58F

4/4/2006 3:39 pm

Rovakin:

You just can't help yourself, can you?! (Most humble apology accepted and welcome back.)

1. Mexico is poor because of MEXICAN politics. The United States does not OWE Mexico, or the Mexican government a living. Valley makes a VERY valid point...we have managed to build a country where EVERYONE can find work AND nearly EVERYONE gets 3 square meals per day.(The U.S. DOES still have some internal problems with poverty, but it involves the very smallest minority of our citizens and lawmakers are working furiously to eradicate the problem completely.)We attract the poor and disenfranchised (disenfranchised by their OWN countries)like a freaking MAGNET. ALWAYS HAVE and probably always will. The only reason I ended up living my life in the U.S. is because Ireland had a potato famine 100 years ago.

2. America has PLENTY of its own critics when it comes to our involvement in the Middle East. International politics is mostly a dirty business involving self-interest, and I SERIOUSLY doubt that ANYONE on the planet who is responsible for making HUGE political decisions will EVER be considered for SAINTHOOD! (that would include the Norwegians).

3. AdultFriendFinder is a website of INTERNATIONAL membership, and the bloggers here are from around the world. One of my "Personal Favorites" blogs from Ireland. I ADORE the humor and wit of the Canadian bloggers, and it ISN'T because I am an expat Canadian. I could blog anywhere on the Internet. I started blogging here by accident AND a logical extension of my association with AdultFriendFinder. (PLEASE NOTE: I DO NOT PAY, I have been a standard member for years.) I like the people here. I decided to stay.
There is nothing intrinsically "American" or "sad" about expressing political ideas here. Hell, YOU found me here, didn't you?

And, if you are comfortable discussing politics while standing naked in a room full of clothed people, I say, "GO for it..."


clevergirl4U 58F

4/4/2006 3:47 pm

Rovakin: just warning you that you can expect a SERIOUS ass-flogging here by Americans who are just plain tired of the anti-American sentiment abroad. We just happen to be the "biggest target" when folks are looking for someone to blame for the failures of humanity, in general.


TheRealThing655 48F
9558 posts
4/4/2006 3:48 pm

Blogging is FREE for anyone...we don't pay to Blog, that is the beauty of this site!
I don't want to get into politics here but I stand by everything you say Clevergirl. Thank you.


clevergirl4U 58F

4/4/2006 4:11 pm

    Quoting rm_valleyrat4:
    You're preaching to the choir sister!

    The ones here who bash the most seem to live in countries that do not have millions of illegal immigrants dying to get into and often succeeding? Perhaps we do have something worth risking life and limb to reach?
Valley: The point that you make is SO crucial to this argument!!! America was founded by people who were disenfranchised by their own countries, and those founders went through incredible hardships in order to settle a new and better country. This country has been POPULATED by immigrants from around the world, LEAVING what they HAD for something BETTER. (Even into TODAY, with the Mexican illegal immigration problem.)

We are an imperfect country. We are diverse, and therefore complex. I sometimes think that we catch all of this international shit simply because we are such a big target to shoot at when someone needs a "bad guy" to blame for the ills of humanity!


clevergirl4U 58F

4/4/2006 4:24 pm

    Quoting rm_4wolfsr:
    For any one anywhere to say that human beings "deserve" to suffer is totally irrational, even inhumane. Even to say that America is the source of all the world's problems is equally irrational. The problems in the Middle East have been going on since long before this country was founded, even in Asia and Southeast Asia, the feudalism has been going on before the birth of Christianity. To state that American's "deserve" the wrath of Katrina is the same as saying the people of Sri Lanka "deserved" to get wiped out by a tsunami or the people of India and Pakistan "deserve" to get wiped out by typhoons.
Wolf: Thanks for your support on this!

It isn't considered PC to bring up Middle-East history when discussing the current US military involvement IN and occupation OF Iraq, so it is never done. It is both murky water and tricky business.(Both the names of bad movies ) I agree completely with what you have to say, but we may have to IM or email to discuss it.


clevergirl4U 58F

4/4/2006 5:21 pm

    Quoting TheRealThing655:
    Blogging is FREE for anyone...we don't pay to Blog, that is the beauty of this site!
    I don't want to get into politics here but I stand by everything you say Clevergirl. Thank you.
I understand...sometimes I like a good political discussion. But sometimes I just want a man who will lay me down and whisper all of the right things in my ear, at the end of a long, hard day

I do appreciate the AMEN...


rm_4wolfsr 57M

4/4/2006 5:21 pm

Clever, this is yor blog so I will respect the PC issues you raise.

That being said, Rovakin, I will not comment on your statements in this forum.


swlaman1 65M

4/4/2006 5:52 pm

In the days following 9/11 I wrote the following:

We are Americans.

We feel anger but we will hold it in check until we can act in truth
and with just cause. We will join hands with all peoples of the
world who are willing to help in the arduous task of freeing our
lives from acts of terrorism.

We are Americans, we come from every country in the world.
We must hold ourselves to a higher standard.

We must seek out the guilty and hold them accountable, but we
will not hate them. We will do no harm to others because they
look different, speak a different language, or call God by a
different name. We will not let the hate that has poisoned the
hearts of our enemies poison our hearts.

We are Americans, we come from every country in the world.
We must hold ourselves to a higher standard. ?
We will not close our doors, hearts, or minds out of fear. We will
not allow fear to change our way of life. We will not sacrifice
our freedom to fear. We are not afraid. Even when we are
grievously hurt, when we have the might and the right to
strike...we will place justice above revenge. Even when it is
hard. Very, very hard.?
We are Americans. We hold ourselves to a higher standard.

So what exactly is anti-American sentiment? Is it anti-French? Is it anti-English? Is it anti-Irish? Is it anti-American Indian? Because I AM ALL OF THESE AND MORE!. (My ancestors obviously liked sex.)

It is because of our great diversity that what I wrote is POSSIBLE here and very unlikely elsewhere. So don’t lump us all together with our “leaders” because their hearts have been poisoned. America is not her leaders but her peoples...who come from your country too I bet!

And if some of us decide to meet at an “Adult Website” in an effort to discuss how and to what standard we will hold ourselves...that would be a very American thing to do.

Sorry clever, I know I go on for too long.

Peace...real and lasting Peace.


clevergirl4U 58F

4/4/2006 5:54 pm

    Quoting rm_4wolfsr:
    Clever, this is yor blog so I will respect the PC issues you raise.

    That being said, Rovakin, I will not comment on your statements in this forum.
Can you do it and not incite a riot in the Muslim world ? (Not that AdultFriendFinder is heavily monitored by the Muslim world )


rm_Rovakin 44M

4/4/2006 7:22 pm

Just coming home from town, being a bit drunk, and very much happy ... I observe that I could have taken you all on - intellectually!
You are pretty full of yourself, aren't you?
Sorry to inform you, but you are not facing "the end of the world and the last man" (F.Fukuyama), - you are facing yourself in the door...
Sorry!
But I'm to drunk right now ... and I love you anyway...

And ****ing h***!!! Give me an intellectual challenge!!! Not some half-thought-through-ready-chewed-truths! You are supposed to be the most advanced nation on earth... Come on! Bring it on!

Love is the Law - Love under Will!


rm_Rovakin 44M

4/4/2006 7:27 pm

    Quoting clevergirl4U:
    Rovakin: just warning you that you can expect a SERIOUS ass-flogging here by Americans who are just plain tired of the anti-American sentiment abroad. We just happen to be the "biggest target" when folks are looking for someone to blame for the failures of humanity, in general.
Did it never ocur to you to wonder why?


rm_Rovakin 44M

4/4/2006 8:19 pm

And ... eh ... it is not like you have any insight into US interventionist politics towards Mexico, is it???


rm_Rovakin 44M

4/4/2006 8:23 pm

Or Cuba? Or Haiti? Or Equador? Or Pannama? Or Nicaragua? Or ... oh ... come on, your not that ignorant, are you???


rm_Rovakin 44M

4/4/2006 8:25 pm

United Fruit Company?


rm_Rovakin 44M

4/4/2006 9:06 pm

    Quoting clevergirl4U:
    Can you do it and not incite a riot in the Muslim world ? (Not that AdultFriendFinder is heavily monitored by the Muslim world )
Yes, please enlighten me on where I got history wrong - I bet the muslim world would be delighted too...


clevergirl4U 58F

4/5/2006 7:01 am

Maybe not comment after you come in from an evening of drinking and US bashing?

The discussion was about Mexican immigration or immigration, in general, into the US. Mexicans illegally emmigrate into the US because the Mexican government and Mexican economy have chronically failed to provide sufficient employment opportunities for its own citizens.

Last year alone, the United States approved 5,893,064 applications from people around the world wanting to emigrate into the U.S. Another 3,182,223 applications for legal immigrant status from 2005 are pending. (This is nearly DOUBLE the number of people living in Denmark, if you need a visual aid.) 131,399 people from around the world applied the the U.S. for political assylum in 2005. We continue to provide both a safe haven AND a land of opportunity for people from around the planet. We are so many people eager for the opportunity to live with evil imperialists?

Ah yes, the evil American imperialists. We exist thanks to the evil British, French, Spanish, and Portugese imperialists. It must be in the genes. I am sure that Denmark would have joined the party if they could have built a boat that would float that far. Do they had out handbooks at those anti-NAFTA rallies on the ten talking points for rationalizing the burning of the U.S. flag?


Northerncomfort2 66M
120 posts
4/5/2006 8:55 am

As a registered Republican, recent events have made me feel a little like a Hindu ticket-seller at a bullfight. But my brother and I had a tacit understanding as we grew up. We could fight and call each other every name in the book, but NO ONE ELSE had that right, and many were the fat-lips that resulted from attempted encroachments by others.

The US has had "more" of virtually everything than many of our critics and I think this is why there ARE so many critics in the first place. We give generously of ourselves, in both money and volunteerism, to those in need, but we take far too much of the world's resources to feed the economic system that makes such generous contributions possible. We are, indeed, a refuge for those existing under tyranny and oppression, but we also use military force far too quickly sometimes to force an end to oppression.

I guess, in short, we try to stand tall in ALL arenas when we should probably be a little more selective in our choices of venue.

And in standing tall, we DO get hit with a lot of pies.

I think that it takes a certain amount of maturity and restraint not to join the food fight, but to make sure that others will always have the food to throw.


clevergirl4U 58F

4/5/2006 9:10 am

Really want to put this discussion to bed in my Blog, but more than willing to continue it between us via email.


twirly_girl 47F

4/5/2006 9:49 am

I blog here because I can use the word "fuck", "pussy" and "cock"
without being sensored by a site that children are allowed to surf.

Just because there may be a serious topic posted doesn't mean we don't still want to blog about sex or the size of your cock.
Even though illegal immigrants being provided better health care and not paying taxes is a serious issue in this country, so is the size of your cock. I blog here because I can discuss both to the same group of people without a site banning me for using a word that best describes your anatomy or your attitude.

And also, let this be a lesson to everyone on the dangers of drinking and blogging. Far too many posts in a short time period makes you appear to be a tad bit insane. LOL

-Nikki


kyplowboy22 61M

4/5/2006 10:05 am

We, as a nation of people, act in a way that affords ourselves and other peoples of the world an opportunity to enjoy freedoms that they would not have access to if left to the designs of a few bad apples. Sorry the Dane (or whatever he is) feels the way he does, but such is life. I can't recall, off the top of my head, any contributions made by Denmark as of late, either good or bad, that relates to achieving world peace or anything else for that matter. This, in turn, makes comments by Rovakin just so much useless, idle chatter. He talks, we act. You would think he would express a little gratitude for the FACT that he is not speaking Nazi German or Soviet Russian. But so be it. He will continue to rattle his idle prattle as long as we have ears to hear it. Maybe if some other nations would step up to the plate from time to time, say the Danes or the French, America would not have to always be the ones to police the knotheads on the planet. I would leave you with this thought; to those that understand, no explanation is needed, to those that don't, none is possible. Later

kpb

PS: He might as well leave me out of his rhetoric, because I will not banter with a fool.


aascrompn 42M
6444 posts
4/5/2006 11:05 am

    Quoting rm_Rovakin:
    Just coming home from town, being a bit drunk, and very much happy ... I observe that I could have taken you all on - intellectually!
    You are pretty full of yourself, aren't you?
    Sorry to inform you, but you are not facing "the end of the world and the last man" (F.Fukuyama), - you are facing yourself in the door...
    Sorry!
    But I'm to drunk right now ... and I love you anyway...

    And ****ing h***!!! Give me an intellectual challenge!!! Not some half-thought-through-ready-chewed-truths! You are supposed to be the most advanced nation on earth... Come on! Bring it on!

    Love is the Law - Love under Will!
Coming home drunk... Well, there certainly isn't much else to do in Norway, I presume.

You could have taken us all on intellectually? Right! Tell you what, run for whatever pathetic political system you have in frigging Norway and I'll actually read you for whatever intellectual crap that would seep onto your blog. However, until then, you are just a nobody that came across "serious" blogs. How the hell can you say that we are full of ourselves when you are the one saying that you can take anybody on intellectually?

If you doubt that we are NOT the most advanced nation on earth, why don't you go to your local recruiter's office and serve for your country? Oh that's right! You're too busy riding on France's coat-tails... LMAO (For you, the all intellectual that you are, it means laughing my ass off).

I tell you another thing... for those of us who actually have had enough balls to server, you kind of people piss me off! I allow my fellow Americans the right to say what they feel about our government, as they have the right. As far as I'm concerned, you do not! Go find a life somewhere! If you don't like reading Amercian blogs, stay off of them.


rm_Rovakin 44M

4/5/2006 1:21 pm

    Quoting clevergirl4U:
    Really want to put this discussion to bed in my Blog, but more than willing to continue it between us via email.
Ok by me. Tempting to prove what I mean about me not having freedom of speech, but this is getting out of hand - and it is your home.
My best wishes


clevergirl4U 58F

4/5/2006 2:49 pm

Rovakin: I didn't know that you would use the space to reiterate the anti-American rhetoric that most Americans have already heard. It simply pisses people off, especially when it comes from a country that contributes so little to world affairs when compared to the active role taken by the U.S. And so I feel that I am creating a space for you to wave that burning flag...not something I want to do. It HAS gotten out of control. Thank you for stepping away, and please feel free to continue the discussion with me via email and without an audience.


clevergirl4U 58F

4/5/2006 3:17 pm

Northern: most excellent observations....especially "in standing tall, we DO get hit by many pies." Thanks for your input, and yes, I have decided to be a grown-up and stand down from the food fight...

KYplowboy did not intend for my blog to turn into a space for more anti-American rhetoric. Yes, I too am annoyed to read criticism from a country that has contributed so little in comparison to the US.

Aascrompn: Somehow I suspected I could count on you to deliver an ass-whoopin'...you are like the big brother I never had As the oldest I have always had to fight my own battles....


OboesHonedIambs 62F

4/5/2006 9:54 pm

Amen, absolutely, you have an Amen here!

Instant Human -- Just Add Coffee


keithcancook 60M
17718 posts
4/8/2006 4:22 pm

God Bless America.

(and Norway too)


clevergirl4U 58F

4/10/2006 2:24 pm

How very diplomatic of you...I'm impressed!


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