Referral - Chavez Visits Quaddafi  

TTigerAtty 62M
3769 posts
5/26/2006 6:24 am

Last Read:
6/3/2006 12:08 pm

Referral - Chavez Visits Quaddafi

The following has been reprinted from the blog of 2soulsmeetas1. Her posting of May 21st is entitled [post 356019].

Chavez Visits Quaddafi, Calls for World to Unite Against America May 21, 2006

Oil-rich Venezuela's anti-American president, recently slapped with a U.S. arms embargo, was given a warm welcome to the Libyan capital Wednesday by Col. Muammar Quaddafi, whose authoritarian regime was only just removed from Washington's list of countries that sponsor terrorism. After dining with Quaddafi, Hugo Chavez called for the world to turn its back on the United States.

"We are against America, the imperialist," he told reporters. "We don't accept its hegemony. The whole world should unite against America."

He made light of the U.S. arms embargo, saying: "We make weapons ourselves and we have some from Europe, Asia and Russia, and we leave the door open to China."

Earlier, Quaddafi met Chavez at a VIP terminal that was scarred with bullet holes. Some crenelated concrete at the top had been blasted away, perhaps damaged in U.S. airstrikes more than two decades ago. The Libyan leader, his face partly covered by a large brown scarf draped over an Arab robe, looked on as Chavez, wearing a suit, shook hands with Libyan officials. The two leaders then got into a late-model Cadillac stretch limousine and were driven a short distance to a tent for their meeting. A herd of camels watched as the limousine drove by with at least 20 security men trotting alongside.


You do know that the U.S. has proposed lifting sanctions on Libya, restoring normal diplomatic relations with the country that was responsible for the bombing of Pan Am flight 103 in 1988 which claimed 270 lives, mostly American, and delisting Libya as a nation state which sponsors terrorism? Yes, we are currently in a 45-day comment period which started this past Monday. Apparently, Libya has been cooperating in the war against terrorism and has voluntarily given up its own weapons of mass destruction. Yes, suddenly after Iraq was preemptively invaded in 2003, Col. Muammar Quaddafi decided to cooperate and give up its weapons of mass destruction. The U.S., which had not had diplomatic relations with Libya since 1980, reopened diplomatic offices in 2004.

I find all of this rather amusing and somewhat surprising. Yet, how long should we continue holding grudges?

So, what is the right course of action? Do we attempt to establish good relations with Libya after a quarter century of no formal diplomatic relations? Or, if not now, when and under what additional pre-conditions?

Leftists, what do you think? Let me guess! George Bush and Condoleeza Rice are fucking up?!

Conservatives, what do you think? Does the practicality of geo politics now indicate that we should reestablish formal diplomatic relations with Libya and begin lifting sanctions against them?

Copyright © May, 2006 by TTigerAtty


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PrincessKarma 43F
6188 posts
5/26/2006 8:46 am

Khadaffi may be a lot of things, but stupid isn't one of them. He's playing both sides to gain the most advantages.

If the US Gov't really thought Chávez could be removed they would have funded a second coup attempt already. The first coup failed bacuse Chávez has enough popular support to tear the country into civil war if that happens, and with oil prices already so high, it's too much of an economic risk.

I don't think Dubya is stupid so much as he is a zealot and being taken advantage of by his cronies. As for Ms. Rice, she's just doing what her boss asks of her.

I miss Madeleine Albright....


The Big Bang was the mother of all orgasms.PrincessKarma


pretty_blue_eyes 38F
2091 posts
5/26/2006 10:18 am

Hmmm...isn't that the president that Pat Robertson thought should be assainated?


TTigerAtty 62M

5/26/2006 11:09 am

    Quoting PrincessKarma:
    Khadaffi may be a lot of things, but stupid isn't one of them. He's playing both sides to gain the most advantages.

    If the US Gov't really thought Chávez could be removed they would have funded a second coup attempt already. The first coup failed bacuse Chávez has enough popular support to tear the country into civil war if that happens, and with oil prices already so high, it's too much of an economic risk.

    I don't think Dubya is stupid so much as he is a zealot and being taken advantage of by his cronies. As for Ms. Rice, she's just doing what her boss asks of her.

    I miss Madeleine Albright....
I agree Col. Quaddafi is not stupid. He is examining all his options. You are probably right regarding economic risks involved in an attempted coup attempt in Venezuela. Some day, some day in the future alternative sources of energy will be used more extensively and the politics of oil will change. Don't kid yourself about George Bush and his advisors. They are not zealots nor or they stupid. They are principled but they are also pragmatic. Some things just have to wait. I have no bone to pick with Madeleine Albright, Colin Powell or Condoleeza Rice.

Being from Panama, you keep an eye on events in Central America and South America more than I do. What is the deal with Hugo Chavez? What direction is he leading Venezuela in? The human rights issues? What is your perspective on those reported abuses?

Thanks for stopping by PK!


007sexy40plus 50F  
7603 posts
5/26/2006 3:58 pm

I am not one to offer political views, therefore I will duck my head in to say hi and hope that you aren't battling any more gators, if so let me know if I can help...

I am the real deal! "Come Get Me!!!"


TTigerAtty 62M

5/27/2006 10:37 am

    Quoting pretty_blue_eyes:
    Hmmm...isn't that the president that Pat Robertson thought should be assainated?
That's right, PBE. Pat Robertson was reported to have made that statement. I cannot support a religious leader saying something like that. I can't imagine what in the hell he was thinking!


TTigerAtty 62M

5/27/2006 10:40 am

    Quoting 007sexy40plus:
    I am not one to offer political views, therefore I will duck my head in to say hi and hope that you aren't battling any more gators, if so let me know if I can help...
007 ... You are certainly welcome to express your views here even if they are different from mine. No more gators spotted in Missouri, but I'll let you know if I see anymore!


TTigerAtty 62M

5/27/2006 10:43 am

Mz Huny ... You're always too, too nice! I can never get a rise out of you with this political stuff! Guess I'm gonna have to post something about the Kentucky Wildcats basketball team!


TTigerAtty 62M

5/27/2006 10:58 am

    Quoting BigGirlzRSweet:
    I don't know what to say. I find most of what is going on in the world to be basically a set of lies... propaganda... lots of hidden agendas. I don't like that. And figuring out the truth is far too difficult most of the time. When reading articles like this, one must consider the personal agenda of the individual writing it, the political bent of the media company he/she works for, the motivations of the parties involved in the story and the 'spin' they wanted to create with it. There are just too many egos in the way for me to believe most of what I read or to make any sort of informed opinion about it.
This is precisely why WE MUST ALL GET INVOLVED. It is hard to sort out the truth! We can throw our hands up, give up and just let the politicians do as they as they damned well please OR we can get involved. BGRS, I come on pretty strong with my opinions, but please don't let that deter you from expressing your own opinions here. I enjoy the political debate, the back and forth exchange of viewpoints. If we disagree, then we just disagree. Not an issue!


TTigerAtty 62M

5/29/2006 11:09 am

    Quoting katsback:
    MAYBE KADAFFI LEARNED HIS LESSON , MAYBE NOT, I DONT WANT TO CHANCE IT DO YOU??
I have very mixed emotions on this one. I remember 1988 and Pan Am flight 103. I don't like it when we restore diplomatic relations and then Quaddafi buddies up with the likes of Hugo Chavez. They both need to be watched ... and I am sure we are!


ohsodelicious 57F
1922 posts
5/30/2006 12:24 am

Tig{=}Explosive 'Political' issues...In a 'nutshell' I passionately dislike discussing Politics...but unfortunately that is what 'our' world evolves around...to digress from the 'issue' of your post...which is a serious 'issue' that many do not comprehend...there are a lot of 'things' going on in 'our' world that...people turn a blind-eye...what about the genocide that has been going on in Africa for years and continues to this day...Oh! Gee!!...there is no 'economical/monetary' value in that region...so why bother...they are insignificant...expendable.

This is why I try to keep my 'yapper' shut...of course this is my opinion...

wishing for something better {for my G'children}...OhSo{=}


TTigerAtty 62M

5/30/2006 9:41 am

OhSo ... Re. Darfur, I pulled the following off the internet just this morning. I'm very unclear on what it needed and who needs to do what? My impression is that The United Nations seems inept at rendering help. Can any shed light on why this situation just continues on when the U.N., NATO and other African nations are involved? I don't understand?

BRUSSELS, Belgium - The United Nations humanitarian chief warned Tuesday of a catastrophic situation developing in Darfur unless international donors act soon to bolster a beleaguered African peacekeeping force in the Sudanese province.

"We either get good news in the next few weeks, or we have catastrophic news later," Jan Egeland told The Associated Press in a telephone interview.

He said a major international conference would be held in June somewhere in Europe to try to boost humanitarian aid and assistance for the peacekeepers.

Egeland was in Brussels to meet top officials at NATO and the European Union. He said military powers should provide more resources to improve transport, communications, logistics, training and planning for the African peacekeepers.

However, he warned against deploying a Western military force, as some politicians in the United States have suggested.

"We have to be careful to calibrate the humanitarian and security response so it doesn't provoke a reaction," Egeland said. "I'd like to see the African Union and the U.N. play the lead role there, NATO and other organizations can complement and very usefully complement our efforts."

A 7,300-member African Union force in place in Darfur has been largely unable to halt violence there despite a May 5 peace deal designed to end fighting that has killed nearly 200,000 people and displaced 2.5 million since 2003.

NATO and the EU have provided airlift, training and other back up for the peacekeepers and have offered more help to bolster the AU troops before they are due to hand over to a U.N. force in September.

Egeland said the Africans need more trucks and helicopters to move swiftly around the vast region. He said African nations also needed to provide more and better-trained troops and said the African Union should urgently bolster the force's mandate so it could better protect the local population.

"The African Union force has to be strengthened, it's them that we have to empower," Egeland insisted. "What can be provided by military organizations, by member states of the U.N. and NATO is very welcome."

He painted a grim picture of the situation on the ground despite the peace agreement which raised hopes of an end to Darfur's woes.

"I'm every morning bracing myself for more bad news coming out of Darfur," Egeland said. After reading the latest report from the region, "my hair was standing on my head," he said. "I got shivers reading that report, every single day there is an attack on humanitarian workers or civilians."

Egeland recently told the U.N. Security Council that the number of displaced people in South Darfur had tripled in the last four months to between 100,000-120,000. He complained local officials have blocked fuel deliveries and the movement of aid workers has been severely restricted.

In addition, areas of eastern Chad that border Darfur have been engulfed in turmoil, Egeland said. Aid groups have been forced to cut back staff and relief work because of insecurity and funding shortfalls.

Egeland said his talks at NATO and the EU were also look at the wider use of the military to help in humanitarian situations. He said military units had proven very helpful during the Asian tsunami, last year's earthquake in Kashmir and the latest deadly quake in Indonesia.

He said an international conference would be held later this year bringing together military and humanitarian organizations to look at how to coordinate aid responses.


m1903a3 59M

5/30/2006 7:31 pm

The saying "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" is one way to look at it.
I personally don't trust a lot of our allies, but we should take help when we can get it.
If Libya wants to help, OK, but its kind of like having a pet scorpion. Or using an alligator as a watchdog.


TTigerAtty 62M

5/31/2006 12:26 pm

    Quoting m1903a3:
    The saying "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" is one way to look at it.
    I personally don't trust a lot of our allies, but we should take help when we can get it.
    If Libya wants to help, OK, but its kind of like having a pet scorpion. Or using an alligator as a watchdog.
I hear ya', Rob! We should always keep our eyes wided open and I trust that we are doing that!


Sorceror07 54M

6/1/2006 10:52 am

bush applies the monroe doctrine to the world. lets not bring up the fact that he really lost his first election though

...That which does not kill me merely pisses me off!...


TTigerAtty 62M

6/1/2006 12:52 pm

    Quoting Sorceror07:
    bush applies the monroe doctrine to the world. lets not bring up the fact that he really lost his first election though
You're old enough to remember Pan Am flight 103 too! I hope we are doing the right thing for the right reasons, and I hope we are watching Quaddafi like a hawk. I just don't have anymore information than this. The comment period is still open, but where does one comment?

You know, Sorce, I will be glad when November, 2008 finally gets here, and we can elect a new President. Then people can quit whining about the 2000 election. Maybe then, finally, we can move ahead as a country.

Hope you and Metal are doing well!


TTigerAtty 62M

6/2/2006 5:29 am

    Quoting sweetbabydee07:
    "Libya, the country that was responsible for the bombing of PanAm 103?" That is very debatable. The trial at Camp Zeist is now being called by many legal academics and experts the greatest miscarriage of justice under Scots Law for 100 years.

    Supposedly it was retaliation for the bombing by the US of Tripoli and Benghazi, which happened two and a half years earlier. Why would they wait so long? Their previous retaliation (bombing of Berlin nightclub in revenge for the US sinking two Libyan boats) took only two weeks!

    More likely the PanAm bombing was carried out by Syria acting along with Iran, in retaliation for the downing six months previously of IranAir flight 655 by the USS Vincennes, which killed almost 300 people, all civilians, many of them children.

    To this date the US has not admitted any wrongdoing or responsibility, or even apologized for this act. The men serving aboard the Vincennes were all awarded combat-action ribbons. For shooting down a non-hostile civilian flight by mistake...

    The attitude we in the West tend to have towards Libya and other countries that are supposed 'sponsors of terrorism' is the exact same attitude that Iran and other countries in the Middle East have towards the US. And can we really say they are wrong?

    I know this is slightly off the point of your post, but I hope you can see some relevance.
I've not heard your version of the Pan Am flight 103 bombing. Can you refer me to a non-biased, non-political news source where I can research your assertions? I'd be happy to read up on it.

I will also read what I can find concerning the IranAir flight 655 incident.

I see you are from the U.K. Prime Minister Tony Blair visited here about a week ago and I watched the joint news conference with our President George Bush. I really respect Tony Blair for his intelligence, his speaking ability, his political courage and his friendship. Both Blair and Bush have very low current approval ratings. I believe they are doing what they are doing in Iraq out of strong believe that it will work and that we will eventually have another Arab ally in the mideast and that Iraqis will someday live in freedom. A lot of lives have been lost ... U.S., U.K. and of course Iraqi. I pray that this will have a good outcome, but there are a lot of people in that part of the world who want to stop this democracy before it gets a foothold in the mideast. I don't know if you personally support Tony Blair or not, but I thank you as one American to one Brit for your country's support in the coalition and for Tony Blair.


TTigerAtty 62M

6/2/2006 12:09 pm

    Quoting sweetbabydee07:
    I can scarcely believe that you haven't heard of this Tiger, it's not just 'my' version, it is a very well documented and more credible explanation than the one that has been accepted as fact. Google the keywords and read everything you can find, there are lots of different sites out there dealing with it. I'm not going to recommend any particular ones as I don't want to be accused of bias.

    Also see the views of Professor Robert Black for some of the legal arguments concerning the guilt or innocence of al-Megrahi. Black was the one who conceived and orchestrated the Camp Zeist arrangements for the trial. I think he could fairly be called unbiased, and he also knows more about the case than almost anybody else.

    And please tell me you do already know the key details of the IranAir incident? Surely it hasn't been forgotten already.
sweetbabydee07 - I will certainly search out this information and read it. I recall all the tension in those days, the hijackings, the PanAm 103 incident, but until you reminded me of the IranAir incident, I will admit that I have not thought about it since those days.


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