Ann Coulter's New Book - #1 on the New York Times Best Seller List!  

TTigerAtty 62M
3769 posts
6/15/2006 6:34 pm

Last Read:
6/21/2006 2:54 pm

Ann Coulter's New Book - #1 on the New York Times Best Seller List!

We learned today that Ann Coulter's new book "Godless - The Church of Liberalism" will make the 6/25/2006 New York Times Best Seller List AND that it will debut in its very first week on the list as #1, numero uno!

I am so happy for Ms. Coulter, and I feel personally vindicated for having promoted her book on this site in the face of considerable opposition, cynicism, negativity and name-calling. Apparently, I'm not the only red-blooded American who relates to what Ms. Coulter has written about liberalism.

It's been a bad week for the libs in America!

01. Ann Coulter's book hits #1 on the New York Times Best Seller List (6/25/2006).
02. Former White House Chief of Staff, Karl Rove, will not be indicted in connection with the CIA leak allegations, which in and of themselves may be completely bogus.
03. President George Bush flies in to Baghdad to meet with Iraqi Prime Minister Maliki and speak to the troops.
04. Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and his lieutenants are taken out.
05. Another 17 related raids on terrorists made in Iraq resulting in over 100 arrests and further acquisition of intelligence.
06. President Bush, National Security Team and Iraqis develop a plan for success in Iraq.
07. Bush's approval rating jumps back up to 40%.
08. Crude oil and gasoline prices at the pump drop.
09. Stock markets move up.
10. Senator Joe Lieberman (D-CT) is considering jumping ship and running for president as an Independent or perhaps switching over to the GOP.

I could go on! But, ten positives is enough for the purpose of making my point!

All in all, it's been a very good week for America and a sad day for liberal Democrats, the Blame America First crowd which exists both in this country and throughout the world, international terrorists, and those who seek to embarrass and damage the credibility of the United States government and our duly elected leaders!


TTigerAtty
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LilSquirt_4mfm 67M/67F
3394 posts
6/15/2006 10:32 pm

now, apart from an extra seat in senate ... joe is a good person.....as a person, the very best they have ... no one i can think of in their party even could hold a candle to joe as a genuine human being ... none! ... but then, good person is not a requirement over there ... they only care that a person delivers their agenda ... his goodness or badness is NEVER an issue for them ... i bet, i mean if there really was one, which of course there isn't, even a miserable drunk womanizer egotistical slob who left a girl to die in a car underwater to save his ass ....they would elect .. .cause he delivers their way. ... a hypothetical of course.

like much of joe's politics also .... he sold his soul (maybe rented it out, as it was only a few months) to run alongside Gorey baby. But, was soon back to the old honest joe. He would / will be a great asset to the good guys.

I am constantly laughing @ the libs fear of....dare i say it? ..... ann ..... i see posts around here expressing the fear / hate. Quote - "enemy #1 of america" .. a 98 # skinny broad ...... lol ... they go crazy..... in abt 1 / 80 th of a second when they hear the name. She mighta phrased a cpl of lines a lil different in my view, ... but the "human shields" sleaze needed calling for what it is ...... the most despicable gutless tactic of all ...... wonder who they'll create tomorrow??

ya, a good week for sure ... even a few more things as u said


TTigerAtty 62M

6/16/2006 3:53 am

    Quoting LilSquirt_4mfm:
    now, apart from an extra seat in senate ... joe is a good person.....as a person, the very best they have ... no one i can think of in their party even could hold a candle to joe as a genuine human being ... none! ... but then, good person is not a requirement over there ... they only care that a person delivers their agenda ... his goodness or badness is NEVER an issue for them ... i bet, i mean if there really was one, which of course there isn't, even a miserable drunk womanizer egotistical slob who left a girl to die in a car underwater to save his ass ....they would elect .. .cause he delivers their way. ... a hypothetical of course.

    like much of joe's politics also .... he sold his soul (maybe rented it out, as it was only a few months) to run alongside Gorey baby. But, was soon back to the old honest joe. He would / will be a great asset to the good guys.

    I am constantly laughing @ the libs fear of....dare i say it? ..... ann ..... i see posts around here expressing the fear / hate. Quote - "enemy #1 of america" .. a 98 # skinny broad ...... lol ... they go crazy..... in abt 1 / 80 th of a second when they hear the name. She mighta phrased a cpl of lines a lil different in my view, ... but the "human shields" sleaze needed calling for what it is ...... the most despicable gutless tactic of all ...... wonder who they'll create tomorrow??

    ya, a good week for sure ... even a few more things as u said
I, too, think Joe Lieberman is a decent man, and he is too moderate for the "modern-day" Democratic Party. I'd like to see him swing all the way over to the Republican Party (vs. Independent) and possibly run along side George Allen, Rudy Guiliani or ?. Anway, the left-wing of the Democratic Party is intolerant of his more moderate views. The liberals are putting pressure on him with money and intimidation, and I am glad to see they will lose one of their best.

Ted Kennedy is an embarrassment to Massachusetts and the U.S. Senate. No JFK or Bobby Kennedy! They would be embarrassed if they could see him now.

Little, sweet Ann Coulter is a threat because she dares to speak the TRUTH. Like a vampire avoiding sunlight or a crucifix, the liberals hate the TRUTH. The "human shield" tactic needed to be pointed out. Cindy Sheehan and people like her are used, made to feel like a celebrity and then cast aside when no longer politically useful. I sympathize with any mother who has lost a son in war (I know Ann Coulter and all of us "Neo-Nazi" conservatives do as well), but Cindy Sheehan is open to citicism for her extreme tactics in voicing opposition to the war. She was/is grieving and angry over loss of her son. Understood. But her son volunteered for service and he knew the dangers. Honor him, his service, his bravery in some other way!

I seriously worry about out-spoken conservatives like Coulter, Limbaugh, Hannity, Elder, et al. I worry about Republicans too. I hope they all maintain a lot of security around them. Their are wacko, crackpots that would love to make a name for themselves!

Thanks for dropping by, LilSquirt!


want2play926 45F

6/16/2006 6:32 am

I like Joe. I think he is one of the better ones.

But Tiger, please...do go on.....

#11

#12

ROTF


sillyperv 54M

6/16/2006 9:36 am

MacDonalds sells millions of hamburgers. John Grisham sells millions of books. Millions of porn videos are bought (no, not all by me!). Britney Spears sold millions of records. Mission Impossible 123 has sold millions of tickets. This is just proof that propoganda and sensationalism works, not of quality.

The leak wasn't bogus. A CIA operative was outed.
Politically, making the Iraqi President look like a toady to the US doesn't seem to be the smartest move in a volitile state.
A martyr will inspire new al Zarquai and create a notion of him being a credible leader as opposed to the wack job - a pure psychopath from what I've read about him and his actions - that he was. Nor will it cure the tribal wars that are going on in Iraq.
17 raids. It's like chasing flies around shit. They never end until you clean up the shit. And it would be a greater success if the battle was against 1 group as opposed to multiple.
"Plan for Success" is that the same as "Mission Accomplished"?
I hate polls. I think they subvert, however subtlely, individual choice. Also what was the question.
Oil prices dropped? Gee, funny how the pump prices bounce up at the first hint of trouble, but don't drop with the same enthusiasm.
The stock market moves this way and that day to day?
Lieberman to the GOP. But I thought you were vehemently opposed to wafflers. Or is that only when you agree with the change.

It's all in the spin TT.
Of far greater importance, Italy play the U.S. tomorrow. Get out and run around with the flag. It's a requirement!

And I'll be drinking German beer, just for the aesthetics.


TTigerAtty 62M

6/16/2006 11:25 am

    Quoting want2play926:
    I like Joe. I think he is one of the better ones.

    But Tiger, please...do go on.....

    #11

    #12

    ROTF
Seems like a decent man to me and reasonable. He's getting pressure from the left-wing of the Democratic party move further to the left. They apparently hold all the cards now. You know all that money from George Soros, NOW, the baby-killing abortionists, the trial attorneys, et al. They are attempting to influence Joe through money and intimidation.

To go on beyond 10 positives for America in one week, would not be fair to my loveable liberal friends on this site!


TTigerAtty 62M

6/16/2006 12:20 pm

    Quoting sillyperv:
    MacDonalds sells millions of hamburgers. John Grisham sells millions of books. Millions of porn videos are bought (no, not all by me!). Britney Spears sold millions of records. Mission Impossible 123 has sold millions of tickets. This is just proof that propoganda and sensationalism works, not of quality.

    The leak wasn't bogus. A CIA operative was outed.
    Politically, making the Iraqi President look like a toady to the US doesn't seem to be the smartest move in a volitile state.
    A martyr will inspire new al Zarquai and create a notion of him being a credible leader as opposed to the wack job - a pure psychopath from what I've read about him and his actions - that he was. Nor will it cure the tribal wars that are going on in Iraq.
    17 raids. It's like chasing flies around shit. They never end until you clean up the shit. And it would be a greater success if the battle was against 1 group as opposed to multiple.
    "Plan for Success" is that the same as "Mission Accomplished"?
    I hate polls. I think they subvert, however subtlely, individual choice. Also what was the question.
    Oil prices dropped? Gee, funny how the pump prices bounce up at the first hint of trouble, but don't drop with the same enthusiasm.
    The stock market moves this way and that day to day?
    Lieberman to the GOP. But I thought you were vehemently opposed to wafflers. Or is that only when you agree with the change.

    It's all in the spin TT.
    Of far greater importance, Italy play the U.S. tomorrow. Get out and run around with the flag. It's a requirement!

    And I'll be drinking German beer, just for the aesthetics.
I understand Italy is good and will probably beat our Team USA. Acutally, I'm more into baseball this time of the year. Our St. Louis Cardinals lead the N.L. Central Division by 3 games. I will most likely watch baseball vs. soccer. Do you expect any fights in the stands?

I like your taste in beer. Make mine a Becks, Lowenbrau or St. Pauli Girl if we're drinkin' German beer.

Now, on to the stressful subject of politics, it seems we disagree rather frequently, but I admire your tenacity and interest in the subject. After all, these are the important issues for our world, not whether you or I got a BJ or were involved in a fmf or mfm romp in the hay!

Whether or not you agree with the quality of the book written by Ms. Coulter, you have to take notice of its enthusiastic reception, debuting as #1 in its first week on the NY Times Best Seller List. To me, that means it is resonating and the subject matter is of broad interest. I only hope some of our bleeding-heart loveable liberal Americans will read it and convert to conservatism or at least move a bit to the center of the spectrum.

Re. the CIA operative outing "allegations" and Mr. Joseph C. Wilson and his wife, Valerie Plame, the supposed outed CIA operative, get a copy of Ms. Coulter's book and read her analysis of this situation (pp.113-126). Karl Rove was not indicted by the prosecutor, and nothing has yet been resolved with respect to the "allegations" about Lewis 'Scooter' Libby. Stay tuned. How much of this has been a "smear campaign" and how much if anything will be found to be truthful?

Prime Minister Maliki seems to be a strong leader, not a "toad" of the USA. That's just more of your leftist propaganda. Maliki wants 100% of the coalition forces out of Iraq by end of 2007 if not sooner. He now has 260,000 Iraqi troops and police trained, and getting better everyday. Why is it not now reasonable to expect that they will be able to handle their own affairs in the not too distant future. If more terrorist enter the fray in Iraq, and they need continuing help, why not deal with "cockroach terrorists" there vs. in the U.S., Canada, U.K. and everywhere else in the western world. They will have to be dealt with somehow and somewhere.

True, al-Zarqawi will become a martyr in death. Should we have allowed him to continue killing Sunnis and Shiites to incite the sectarian civil war and to kill coalition war? No, I don't think so. Evil has to be dealt with, my friend. al-Zarqawi was an evil terrorist, pure and simple. So, who's next? I'm sure there will be more. Shall we 'cut and run' and hope that everything will become peaceful, that terror doesn't come again to our borders, to your borders, my friend? I think we have to deal with it head on and I think western countries had better be cooperating together to get the job done.

17 raids is 17 raids and that was done in one week, my friend. I do not suggest this is the end of the work that will have to be done to root out these evil terrorists that blow up themselves as well as innocent people. I simply would argue that we are gaining ground slowly but surely and if you liberals will quit whining about it, the job will someday get done. The alternative? Talk with the terrorists? Cut and run and hope they turn out to be nice people who just want to spend the remainder of their lives living peacefully among themselves? C'mon, this is the real world, not Candyland!

Re. Plan for Success, means a plan that has been agreed to by the U.S. National Security Team, the Iraqi Cabinet of Ministers and key coalition partners. Plans are made to be changed. The mission remains the same. Win. Establish a beachhead of democracy in the middle east. And greatly suppress the will and the capabilities of these fanatical terrorists. Admittedly, President Bush was premature in announcing "Mission Accomplished" when he landed on that aircraft carrier. I am sure he regrets that statement. But, he was referring to the 3 month war effort to topple Hussein and drive into Baghdad. He was trying to congratulate and thank the troops as any strong leader would do. You libs can just keep second-guessing everything Bush has done and will do. How does that help the situation? Or do you want to help? Do you want to help, obstruct, celebrate failure? Failure is not an option and it will not happen!

You libs are so duplicitous regarding the polls! When they say what you want them to, you cheer as when Bush's approval rating was in the 30's and Tony Blair's approval rating was in the 20's. Now that Bush's approval rating is back up to 40%, you discount the polls! You guys are so predictable! We know your game plan better than you do! Get a different game plan by getting on the right side of issues.

I'd rather have Sen. Joe Lieberman being a voice for moderation as an Independent or a moderate Republican than have him waste his talents in the Democratic Party where they insist he swear allegiance to the liberal agenda. Welcome, Joe! The sooner he jumps ship, the better as far as I'm concerned. Depending upon who he might partner up with, I might even vote for them. I'll reserve judgment until I see the entire field of candidates.

Hey, I understand that both conservatives and liberals spin. But on the issues that define us, the differences are stark.

Lord, you wear me out! Can we start debating all this stuff over beer! My poor little fingers are tired! Have a good weekend!

How is Canada's team doing in the World Soccer Cup Tournament? Good luck to your team!


micahbiguns 51M

6/16/2006 8:07 pm

Good going TTiger good Argumentation!!


sillyperv 54M

6/17/2006 8:26 am

YES! I'VE BEEN CALLED A "LIBERAL"! Hehheheheheheh!
Anyway, you missed the point about Coulter being #1. I'm not going to repeat myself.
I do wonder who outed the operative? And it seemed to serve particular interests. Who did it? My point was that just because someone isn't charged doesn't make the "outing" bogus.
I said, "appear a toady", since he hasn't really done anything to be defined one way or the other. I think maintaining at least the appearance of "independance" would work in his favour (to gain credibility with the various factions) better than sitting with Junior. Meeting after the coalition has departed is the smarter move. If anything, that picture was for the American public and George's ratings and a "real politic" error.
As for Al Zarqawi, better that he's gone of course, I did mention that he was a psycho, wack job, but that it's not an "enormous, or stunning success" as presented in the press because it doesn't solve or mitigate the inherent problems of the American occupation.
As for cutting and running? Well, I do wonder about imposing a system on a society. Hell, individually, we hate being told to make our beds. The will of the people, "for the people, by the people" is the way democracy wins out. The people, a society, must make that choice. Having it imposed I don't think works. And I don't believe the invasion was about democracy or terrorists but controlling the oil flow to the European Union. Suddam Hussain, while a horrible thug and tyrant, had nothing to do with Al Queda or Osama.
Oh, you right wingers, bring up a verbal faux pas by your President and you just start firing out accusations and recriminations from all fields (blech, I don't like that type of discussion). It's not my fault he said it. I feel for the stand up comics when he's gone. Anyway criticizing a plan of action that has yet to be proven effective, the costs, deaths and long term evolution is still very much in doubt, is the responsibility of an active citizenship. As is defending the actions one believes in. Replying - that's left wing agenda, or propganda, or other quips to dismiss an arguement - is a disservice to your position and beliefs because you avoid dealing and answering the positions presented to you.
I stand by my position on polls! If you've ever read anything about them you might agree. They are absolute, yes or no questions that do not allow for the nuance of the real world.
It doesn't bother me when a politician changes positions on issues, as long as I believe that it's honest, not opportunistic. (I think Kerry betrayed himself, his beliefs, when he voted for the war, but that his change and excuse was pure political opportunism and that's why it backfired.) Actually, I like it when politicians change their minds and admit they were wrong, I think it shows an active mind and a willingness to make choices, as opposed to being a dull ideologue.

Now, get yourself to a nice Italian bar, have an espresso or two, a couple of cannolli's (with the ricotta, not cream) and get a feel for the World Cup. It only comes once every four years. Give it a try for the experience.

Yeah, yeah, Canada didn't qualify! Thankfully because of the mixed heritage I can pick and choose. Azzurri Rules. Caio!


TTigerAtty 62M

6/19/2006 9:52 am

    Quoting micahbiguns:
    Good going TTiger good Argumentation!!
I'm getting tired! I think I'll let this political arguing to the paid professionals!


TTigerAtty 62M

6/19/2006 10:13 am

    Quoting newaroundhere64:
    The war on terror will be won just as the war on poverty, drugs, etc. were won. Oh, wait...

    I agree with the position that this war is different in that we, the American people, have not had to make sacrifices. Which keeps the war "over there". It hasn't hit home to the masses since late in 2001. It has little to do with terrorists, Sadam or democracy overthrowing a dictatorship as it does with the control of the flow of oil.

    The spin doctors keep your eyes on the wrong targets, in my humble opinion.
Norman, good point! I hope you are wrong, but I am afraid you will be proven right! The war against those who would promote their political and religious ideologies will likely have to be fought forever. I guess, when you think about it, terrorism, oppression, whatever you wanna call it, has gone on since the beginning of mankind. It just has a different face and uses some different tactics and technologies in today's world. Poverty and drugs have also been around since the beginning of mankind.

Terrorists and/or interests opposed to western civilization or American influence in the world, more specifically, would like to control the flow of oil. My question of you and others who throw up oil as an admitted motivation for our interest in the mideast: Shall we step back and let them? Are you and is the rest of the civilized world willing to endure the consequences of that scenario? Although we are beginning to see movement toward development of some alternative fuels, we still need fossil fuels. Rather than involve the U.S. in middle-east affairs are you prepared to pay more at the pump for gasoline, convert to smaller combustion engines, switch to hybrid and hyrogen fuel technologies, drive less, pay more for electric energy, support drilling for oil and refining of oil in America with relief from current regulatory restriction, support increased federal subsidies to private industry for development of all forms of alternative energy sources, et al?

I hope that alternative energy development continues to be a growth industry in the U.S. Let's become more self-sufficient, more environamentally friendly and more economically prosperous! I'm all for it! But in the meantime .......

Thanks for dropping by! I always appreciate your wise perspective!


TTigerAtty 62M

6/19/2006 11:05 am

    Quoting sillyperv:
    YES! I'VE BEEN CALLED A "LIBERAL"! Hehheheheheheh!
    Anyway, you missed the point about Coulter being #1. I'm not going to repeat myself.
    I do wonder who outed the operative? And it seemed to serve particular interests. Who did it? My point was that just because someone isn't charged doesn't make the "outing" bogus.
    I said, "appear a toady", since he hasn't really done anything to be defined one way or the other. I think maintaining at least the appearance of "independance" would work in his favour (to gain credibility with the various factions) better than sitting with Junior. Meeting after the coalition has departed is the smarter move. If anything, that picture was for the American public and George's ratings and a "real politic" error.
    As for Al Zarqawi, better that he's gone of course, I did mention that he was a psycho, wack job, but that it's not an "enormous, or stunning success" as presented in the press because it doesn't solve or mitigate the inherent problems of the American occupation.
    As for cutting and running? Well, I do wonder about imposing a system on a society. Hell, individually, we hate being told to make our beds. The will of the people, "for the people, by the people" is the way democracy wins out. The people, a society, must make that choice. Having it imposed I don't think works. And I don't believe the invasion was about democracy or terrorists but controlling the oil flow to the European Union. Suddam Hussain, while a horrible thug and tyrant, had nothing to do with Al Queda or Osama.
    Oh, you right wingers, bring up a verbal faux pas by your President and you just start firing out accusations and recriminations from all fields (blech, I don't like that type of discussion). It's not my fault he said it. I feel for the stand up comics when he's gone. Anyway criticizing a plan of action that has yet to be proven effective, the costs, deaths and long term evolution is still very much in doubt, is the responsibility of an active citizenship. As is defending the actions one believes in. Replying - that's left wing agenda, or propganda, or other quips to dismiss an arguement - is a disservice to your position and beliefs because you avoid dealing and answering the positions presented to you.
    I stand by my position on polls! If you've ever read anything about them you might agree. They are absolute, yes or no questions that do not allow for the nuance of the real world.
    It doesn't bother me when a politician changes positions on issues, as long as I believe that it's honest, not opportunistic. (I think Kerry betrayed himself, his beliefs, when he voted for the war, but that his change and excuse was pure political opportunism and that's why it backfired.) Actually, I like it when politicians change their minds and admit they were wrong, I think it shows an active mind and a willingness to make choices, as opposed to being a dull ideologue.

    Now, get yourself to a nice Italian bar, have an espresso or two, a couple of cannolli's (with the ricotta, not cream) and get a feel for the World Cup. It only comes once every four years. Give it a try for the experience.

    Yeah, yeah, Canada didn't qualify! Thankfully because of the mixed heritage I can pick and choose. Azzurri Rules. Caio!
I have recently understood that there may not even be a crime committed here with regard to the "supposed CIA operative outing", because Valerie Plame did not fit the definition of a CIA operative covered under the so-called "Agent Identity Act". Again, I refer you to pages 113-126 of Ann Coulter's new book for her analysis of the scenario which developed in this case. I suppose this will all be sorted out by Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald. Lewis
'Scooter' Libby is still facing charges for lying to the grand jury, but no substantial charges in connection with the original investigation. We shall see what happens on the perjury charges. If he is found guilty, then I suppose he will pay the consequences.

I understand and appreciate the point you make that Prime Minister Maliki needs to be as well as be seen as a strong, independent leader of Iraq. On the other hand, the U.S. has been spending an average of $5.6 billion per month helping the Iraqi's set up their new constitutional unity government. We have lost 2,500+ of our finest young men and women in Iraq. We have had 18,000 wounded. We are partners with the 260,000 Iraqi Security Force and with Prime Minister Maliki. We are not ashamed of it. I certainly am not ashamed of anything our country has done in Iraq. And we hope that Prime Minister is not ashamed of being seen with our Commander in Chief who made all this possible for him and his country. No, George W. Bush needs to work closely with Prime Minister Maliki to coordinate our continued involvement and our eventual withdrawal of troops. The closer he can be to Prime Minister Maliki, the better he can understand what the Iraqis want and need from us and the better he can assess their commitment to carry on without the presence of coalition troops in their sovereign country.

There you go again with your spin ... "American occupation". We are occupying nothing. We have overthrown an oppressive dictator and his regime who would have always been a problem in that region of the world, we have worked with Iraqis who want a new direction of freedom and democracy and we have worked to support them as they establish their sovereign government and security forces. When the job is done, we will leave ... and then all you bleeding-heart, left-wing liberals can and will continue to criticize and spin. Look buster, 2500+ of our brave young men and women have given their lives for the sake of what our American leadership believes will be a better and safer world. 18,000 Americans have been wounded in this effort. Please honor their sacrifices for the cause of peace and freedom in the world by watching your loose rhetoric!

You seen pretty certain that Saddam Hussein and his regime had no connections and would have had not connections to terrorists, whether of the Al Qaeda pedigree or others. I don't know that as an absolute certainly and will not make that statement. I will allow for the possibility that illigence information not released for public consumption may have indicated otherwise. I will allow for the possibility that, although WMD were not found by inspectors or our U.S. military when they finally got there and were able to look for the stuff (recall they first had a small problem to deal with in the Iraqi Army), stockpiles of weapons and/or supplies may have been moved out of the country. I don't know that they were anymore than you know that they were not!

Look, you keep hammering on the "Mission Accomplished" statement. Is that all you left-wing, Blame America First, Bush-bashers have to harp about? I explained that Bush's arrival on board that air craft was likely intended to spur the morale of our U.S. troops and to offer hope that one phase of the operation had been accomplished. I'm damned glad he did pat our service people on the back and if you libs the he misspoke, go right ahead and harp! Quite frankly that kind of cheap sharp-shooting is pretty pathetic and is intended to avoid the point. The point was that we had just kicked a violent dictator out of Iraq. Does George Bush wish, with the benefit of hindsight, that he had talked a bit more about the work ahead while celebrating the success of our armed forces? I imagine he does. So, Presidents learn as they do they job. Any of your liberal heroes would also have a learning curve in the job! We have to understand that our leaders ALL learn and grow in their roles. I think George W. Bush has had to learn. In 2008, when we choose a new American leader, that man or woman will have to learn to. Hopefully, in this country, we will always pray for our leaders and our country.

I think we tied with Italy on Saturday and now play Ghana. I don't know if Team USA is any good or not. I'll most likely watch St. Louis Cardinal baseball instead of soccer, but I'll try to watch if I can!

If I was given a choice and could only eat one ethnic food for the rest of my life, I would choose Italian ... for the pasta, wine, bread and pastries. That despite the fact, I am of German heritage. The brats and sauerkraut get old! We have a great Italian community on 'The Hill' in St. Louis. Great authentic Italian restaurants! Tommy Lasarda, manager of the L.A. Dodgers, always ate there when the Dodgers were in town to play our Cardinals!

Good luck to Italy!


sillyperv 54M

6/20/2006 9:15 am

What's interesting about these arguements is that we believe something and then read the information that confirms our beliefs.

You believe the position of the Bush administration that there was significant information about weapons of mass destruction and a strong connection to terrorism by Hussein, while I believe that there were no weapons of mass destruction and terrorist connection.

Both beliefs come from what we read and hear. Now the CIA, the United Nations and various sources inside Iraq have said there were no weapons and no connection.

Now, the CIA also said there were weapons of mass destruction, in the build up to the war, but most of what I've read, heard and watched has discredited that information as coming from political pressure from the Bush administration. Much that I've seen presented by the administration, from the rediculous (that doesn't look right and my computor always crashes when I use the spell check on this site) claim of weather gliders as a threat to neighbours, the shifting reasons for the invasion -wmd, terrorism, democracy, the planted connection to Osama, the mixed messages by the CIA, the vision by Rove and Aschroft and other advisors, of the middle east prior to Bush's election, speaks of an administration that have interests other than what they claim. These are ideologues, and ideologues of all stripes have views of the world that are essentially misguided and borderline dilusional. Their actions, built on a fictional imagining usually lead to disaster.

I think George showing up in Iraq is bad politics and therefore undermines the sacrifices of the men and women carrying your nations colours. The future will show who guessed right.

Could you please point out where I denigrated the soldiers in my "loose rhetoric"? The soldiers lot in life is to suffer at the whims of their leaders folly and this is borne out by centuries of disaster - Napolean, Hitler, Burma etc. If anything, I think history proves that we must question our leaders reasons to go to war and continue to question a war, police action, peace front etc, while providing the soldiers with the full means to accomplish their job at hand.

I think that was a cheap shot.

What do you want to call the American army in Iraq? A visit? An army entering a country to over throw the government (ignoring justifications) and then plans to stay for 10 years because the place is unstable, (created by the invasion) is an occupation, for good or bad. And, believe me, now that the U.S. is there, I hope it all works out for the best.

You know, I was just being rather glib on the "Mission Accomplished" statement. I guess it don't come through as clearly as I thought. It's true, dying is easy, comedy is hard.

Team USA battled well, not possessing the technique of the Italians, but were deserving of the tie. It was a rather rough affair, with a nasty cheap shot by Di Rossi and a few studs into heels by the Americans, and the refereeing was bizarre. All in all, entertaining as hell. If the U.S. beats Ghana they go through to the next round. My father has already sold the Italian team to the knackers for glue. Ah the world cup.

Hey the Jays are holding nicely. When Burnett gets back things could get interesting. Cardinals and Jays for the series.

And I don't mean to blatter so much on your blog, (yeah, right, my fingers are hitting the keys by accident) it's just that once I start ....

Caio.


TTigerAtty 62M

6/20/2006 2:53 pm

My friend, there are idealogues on the extreme left too, and many of these people are imbedded within American and world-wide media and so the preponderance of spin is in favor of left-wing agendas and against anything done, planned, proposed or contemplated by a conservative administration. You are right, we each get our news from among a myriad of sources. I choose to get my news from Fox News, CBS News, CNN (sometimes), talk radio (dominated by conservatives in the USA) and reading when I can. The problem we all have is sorting out the TRUTH. Admittedly, it is difficult to find the TRUTH. It is increasingly difficult because we distrust the news as having some political spin on it. I have become so cynical of the news that I try to get it from as many sources as I can. I actually value our debates here on this site, because you challenge my thinking and expand my horizons. But, that is no way to live, my friend. Too much time can be spent following the politics of world events that we have little left for living! For example, I haven't played golf in too damned long!

You are absolutely right in saying that we will only know with the benefit of 5-10 years of hindsight whether sacrifices by U.S. troops, coalition nation partner troops (of which Canada is certainly one) and the Iraqi people were worth it! The parents, spouses, and children of those individuals who were lost will never think the war was worth it. I understand their feelings and respect their right to feel that way. I recently watched a documentary on the History Channel which was based on clips taken from 20 hours of interviews with Robert S. McNamara, U.S. Secretary of Defense under both Kennedy and Johnson. McNamara, now in his 80's, reflects upon the war, how decisions were made and the inherent inaccuracy of all information and intelligence which influence those decisions. It was interesting and I recommend it to you. McNamara now lives with a tremendous burden of guilt over his involvment in the war. 58,000 U.S. troops killed and 1.3 million Vietnamese killed.

Sorry for the cheap shot re. "loose rhetoric". Overly sensitive and paranoid perhaps, something that was brought out in the McNamara interviews which I recommend to you. Reasonable people should debate these actions ... but hopefully prior to proceeding with them. In the case of the U.S., we had those debates and discussions in our Congress and there was a vote to authorize President Bush to take whatever actions necessary in Iraq.

Unfortunately, in hindsight, too much concern and discussion was given to WMD (a narrow rationale for stopping Saddam Hussein) and not enough concern and discussion was given to other considerations having to do with the stabilization of that part of the world in light of the aims of the fanatical brand of Islamic fundamentalist terrorists. Hey, and let's all admit that our western civilization does depend upon the free flow of oil from that part of the world (not just the U.S., but Canada, Europe, China, India, et al). To presume that the civilized nations of the world would allow this region of the world to become destabilized is a bit naive. But when would they involve themselves? Now, as your country and mine have done? Or later, after the oil flows stopped and their constituencies complained bitterly and perhaps even rioted in the streets? Not likely? Turn the spigots off and see what happens!

I'll follow Italy in the World Cup, although I don't know a thing about soccer. Tell your father to keep the faith! I have no idea how good Ghana or the USA is, but I will try to watch a little of the game on Thursday.

Re. the Montreal Bluejays, they need a shot in the arm to promote baseball in Canada. It would be a good thing to have another Canadian team some day.

Take care and thanks for dropping by once again! If you come once more, you will have worn me down, and I will agree to anything you say!


sillyperv 54M

6/20/2006 6:16 pm

I'll keep this relatively short - honest.
Seen the McNamara documentry a couple of times! Sad that such a bright and inherently decent man (just my impression) could make such poor decisions.

We have a reaction to code "words" - right wing fundamentalist, liberal agenda, tree hugger, etc and a word pops in and it's difficult not to react like Pavol's dog. Then we just start to spew the code words at each other and genuine discussion is eliminated. Listen to any show that favours the left or right and far to often issues are passed by with the use of those words.

Of course I'm feeling tremendous guilt about interrupting your golf game. I hit the green from about 152 with my 7 the other day. Two putted for par. Ahhhh!

Don't be rude and ask about the other **&%%%!!2/!! 17.

The USA will have trouble with Ghana, but both are running on highs so it should be a good game.

Oh, and it's the Toronto Blue Jays. It was the Montreal Expos. All this political talk is causing you to lose focus.

Clinton vs Bush woulld be a blood bath. While I think Hillary is smart and a far tougher person than her husband, because she has to be, the assault from the right would be epic and probably overwhelm her.


TTigerAtty 62M

6/21/2006 2:20 pm

    Quoting sweetbabydee07:
    "Norman, good point! I hope you are wrong, but I am afraid you will be proven right! The war against those who would promote their political and religious ideologies will likely have to be fought forever. I guess, when you think about it, terrorism, oppression, whatever you wanna call it, has gone on since the beginning of mankind. It just has a different face and uses some different tactics and technologies in today's world."

    In attempting to take democracy to Iraq, who is actually promoting their political ideology and to whom? They are fighting against us forcing our political views on them. And I get the feeling they will be willing to go on forever... Democracy is a ideology too, and I don't think it can be externally imposed on a group of people. I get the feeling that the new verb 'to democratize' must surely by definition of the word democracy be somewhat meaningless.

    Just my opinion. Somewhat away from the point of the original post, sorry.

    I agree with sillyperv, popularity doesn't mean anything much at all. People will buy any kind of junk if it's marketed right. I'm NOT saying the book is junk, I haven't read it so won't judge, just making a point.
I think we all agree that this kind of stuff, in various forms, has gone on since the beginning of time. The struggle against international terrorism, oppression and intimidation of people will go on until the end of time. But, wait a minute, in my recent studies of liberal thinking, I was under the impression that liberals feel we should be able to talk nicely and rationally to these people and find ways to live in peace. I thought the thinking was that if we were to just leave them alone, stop invading the countries which harbor and sponsor them, then they would no longer reach out to strike at our airlines, embassies, Navy ships, tall buildings, subway systems, etc. At least, that is what I hear many liberals saying in this country and throughout the world. If the damned USA would just quit coming after these people, they'd settle down and live peacefully in their part of the world. That's what I've been learning anyway.

Well, it makes a lot of sense to me. Why should the USA be spending %5.6 billion per month to prosecute these wars against terrorism and to spread democracy to other people? We could just save that money and let those poor misunderstood terrorists live in peace. We could spend the money for more abortion clinics, excuse me 'Family Planning Clinics', for more handouts and subsidies to the poor in our own country and throughout the world, for free drugs and medical service, and for more AIDS research.

I say now, as a full-fledged liberal, give peace a chance! Give peace a chance! Jesse is right, my friends!


TTigerAtty 62M

6/21/2006 2:41 pm

    Quoting newaroundhere64:
    THIS is the sacrifice I'm talking about. $3.20 for a gallon of gas? Pshaw! If I can afford the Hummer, who gives a rat's ass how high it gets? You see? No sacrifice being asked.

    Gas rationing? Who wants to commit political suicide? I hate to say it, and I hope it doesn't happen, but it'll take a few more attacks on the Homeland for the message to sink in that change is required and sacrifices will come with that change.

    What would happen if Osama were caught tomorrow? If you consider the implications of this, you might see we can't capture or kill him right now. If killed, there will probably be numerous reprisal attacks on home. Our troops are over there or heading for our borders. Who will try him? How long will that trial take? Hell, they said Sadam would be tried within 3 weeks, found guilty and executed. They're holding his trial IN A WAR ZONE! That, in and of itself, is ludicrous. There will be no versict for months and I'll bet dollars to doughnuts he'll sit in a cell for decades to come. The alternative is a full blown civil war with US in the middle. Nothing will happen to him until our troops are completely out and that will take years, if not decades.

    The Bush family has been in the oil business for generations. Halliburton has been part of the military indutrialization business since it's conception. Who would think Bush and Cheney have the US Constitution in their best interest, rather than the militarization of the flow of oil out of Iraq?

    Change is coming, my Friend. The Right is getting damn fed up with everything, too.

    Here's a nightmare for you to ponder: H Clinton vs. Jeb Bush in 2008!

    ~Norman
Good to see you once again, Norman! I feared you were in love, and we'd never see you much anymore! I always appreciate your take on things!

Let me jump right to your last statement about Hilary Clinton vs. Jeb Bush in 2008! I no longer give advice to the damned "Christian-Right, Neo-Nazi" conservatives, since I converted to liberalism. But IF I were offering advice, I'd advise them NOT to run Jeb in 2008! The American public is not ready for a continuation of the evil Bush dynasty. This would play right into the hands of the Libs! No, save Jeb for an appointment in the cabinet. Groom him for 2016, when everyone will have forgotten about George H. W. and George W. I say the Republicans should groom Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) and Law and Order Rudy Giuliani as running mates. Greater acceptance from the Republican center and some cross-over Democratic voters. The jury is out for me with respect to Sen. George Allen (R-VA), Newt Gingrich, and Sen. Bill Frist (R-TN). Condie Rice needs more seasoning, needs to a governor first.

Now, as a recently converted Lib, I think all 14 of the Democrat wanna-be Presidential candidates would make great choices! Hilary was boohed by 'Take Back America' liberal activists for her stand on the war, but I suspect she was just playing to the broader electorate when she gave her speech before them a couple weeks ago!

Now, back to the rest, of your comment ... If we capture or kill Osama bin Laden, I think we should release him. He is after all just a poor misunderstood guy from Saudi Arabia, who would never have committed evil crimes had the USA not purchased oil from Saudia Arabia and become so cozy with the Saudi Royal Family. Yep, it's all Bush's fault. Release poor Osama!

Re. Saddam Hussein's trial, I just heard today that a third lawyer of his was killed. I'm glad I didn't take his case. But, he's a nice guy and needs to get fair trial. Us libs support human rights you know! Perhaps, with all the killings of his attorneys, we should see a change of venue? Atlanta perhaps? New York City? GITMO?


TTigerAtty 62M

6/21/2006 2:54 pm

    Quoting sillyperv:
    I'll keep this relatively short - honest.
    Seen the McNamara documentry a couple of times! Sad that such a bright and inherently decent man (just my impression) could make such poor decisions.

    We have a reaction to code "words" - right wing fundamentalist, liberal agenda, tree hugger, etc and a word pops in and it's difficult not to react like Pavol's dog. Then we just start to spew the code words at each other and genuine discussion is eliminated. Listen to any show that favours the left or right and far to often issues are passed by with the use of those words.

    Of course I'm feeling tremendous guilt about interrupting your golf game. I hit the green from about 152 with my 7 the other day. Two putted for par. Ahhhh!

    Don't be rude and ask about the other **&%%%!!2/!! 17.

    The USA will have trouble with Ghana, but both are running on highs so it should be a good game.

    Oh, and it's the Toronto Blue Jays. It was the Montreal Expos. All this political talk is causing you to lose focus.

    Clinton vs Bush woulld be a blood bath. While I think Hillary is smart and a far tougher person than her husband, because she has to be, the assault from the right would be epic and probably overwhelm her.
I think McNamara was a bright young man when he took charge of the Department of Defense. Perhaps too young to take over the Defense Department when President Kennedy recruited him after only 5 weeks as President of Ford Motor Company!

I got the impression from the documentary, that Robert S. McNamara's soul is tortured by the fact we didn't win in Vietnam and the fact that we lost 58,000 of our own and killed 1.3 million Vietnamese. He is doing a lot of thinking about decisions made within the Kennedy and Johnson administrations while he was there. He has gone to Vietnam to discuss what happened back then with their leaders. I thought there were good lessons in that film for any wanna be President, Secretary of Defense, Secretary of State and all ordinary Americans!

Nice 7-iron shot! Sorry about my faux pas with respect to the Blue Jays! You are right. I need to get back to watching the Cards! I think they are still leading the Central Division?

See my reply to Norman re. the potential Clinton vs. Bush match-up. I wouldn't advise the Republicans to run Jeb in 2008. Season him with a Cabinet post or Senatorial seat and then run him in 2016. Defuse the Libs' reaction to the Bush Dynasty! Outsmart them! Ooooops! I'm a full-fledged Lib now, and I'm not suppose to be thinking that way!

Take care!


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