Are locker room conversations bad?  

AstirRelicLatah 64M
1288 posts
9/9/2006 1:49 pm

Last Read:
9/12/2006 7:52 am

Are locker room conversations bad?


Ana just made a very nice post about a friend of hers who passed on a while ago, the importance of being earnest... I highly recommend you read it.

In my reply I started on about being intense and how it’s hard for others to be around it and thought this would be a good topic for my own post. So, instead of going on forever in her blog, I think its better that I write about it over here. I also have a topic to write about. *grin*

I’ve noticed that many people I spend time with can get burned out on me pretty quickly. I realize the reason for this is I don’t do small talk especially well. If I have a conversation with someone I want it to have meaning. I guess it’s something I grew up with in my family.

We would have these great conversations where we were asked, no not asked, demanded to support a position we took. It usually came from strong questioning about why believed something that came out of our mouth. At any rate, from this training I learned about the principle that ideas are important and have meaning. Maybe I’ve always believed this and my family just reinforced it, but it’s been my belief.

I’ve never done locker room conversation very well. For those of you who have never had this wonderful experience, it goes something like this….Well, who did you fuck last night, how were they are what are her friends like….or, how much beer did you drink and who did you fuck?.........or, just plain bragging about some exploitation of someone you accomplished. In this situation I would change as quickly as I could, get out of there before someone actually said something to me…..

Now, in the outer world I had a quick tongue. This would often get me in trouble because I would ask questions people didn’t want to answer….My questions tended to hold people to some sort of standard they weren’t willing to look at. When I was younger I never understood what was going on. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve learned that you can’t have these sort of conversations or challenge people all of the time…they just don’t want to look at it.

Now I’m starting to learn how to have deep conversations with those who want them and at least for a short period of time, have the light conversations that most want…I guess the light conversations allow us to not consider who and what we are. Frankly, I like the deep questions way better than the light ones and find the deep ones much more full and rich when they’re asked.

I think our country would be a better place if our leaders asked deep questions about how the world works….Instead I have the feeling that our leaders treat their meetings more like a locker room than like an internal dialogue that questions the larger issues in life.

My question for the day…do you like the deep conversations? If so, how do you find people and circumstances to have them? Or, are the lighter conversations more comfortable for you? Just curious and thanks.

silverhawk762 51M/47F

9/9/2006 2:24 pm

Both. Deep conversations with only a few friends that I've known for many, many moons, and this includes my other half - when I can drag it out of him!!! Light, everyday conversations with just about everyone else. I'd much rather stand back and watch at gatherings than open my mouth. I prefer listening to people - they really don't realize what kind of clues they give when they speak as to who and what they really are...

I tend to look at it like this: For a truly deep conversation to occur, you have to know at least a little bit about what drives the other person in their opinions and views. Only then can you begin to dissect what is or what is not meaningful to all parties involved in the discussion. Light conversation is generally for people that I know nothing about - quite simply to avoid scaring the hell out of 'em! And there have been times when anything deeper than a "hi, how are you" is quite literally beyond me because I'm stressed or tired, or have absolutely no position or stake in the conversation that's on the menu.

You're right, though. Most people either don't want or don't know how to approach a deeper conversation. Whether it's through denial or through ignorance, not knowing how to really converse and put your ideas on the table and being able to support your ideas and positions, people seem to avoid asking the hard questions of themselves and others... {=}


AstirRelicLatah replies on 9/10/2006 6:34 pm:
I like your comment about people not knowing how much they give away. I also find that this is true. Isn't funny how having a deep conversation for many scares the living shit out of them. *grin* I've been accused of being way to "intense" more than once in my life. Nice comments, thanks.

JuicyBBW1001 54F

9/9/2006 6:33 pm

I can do both but it depends on the person and the circumstances surrounding our conversation.

Juicy


AstirRelicLatah replies on 9/10/2006 6:34 pm:
Yea, that's how I think it is for many people.

rm_verriberri 78F
1849 posts
9/9/2006 10:12 pm

Yes - I understand this one, it is something I wrestle with. I've always had a 'serious' bent - *s* - always enjoyed a rough and tumble discussion about an issue, an event, or an interaction; but you're right, everyone does not enjoy it.

In the last few years I finally have a 'bit' of compassion for the other side.. maybe it's my age, and certainly it has something to do with stressful circumstances, but there are simply days when if I hear one more 'critical' thing, or have to listen to one more retelling of unreasonable behavior, I'm going to scream. During those periods, I'm in balance, but it's precarious, and I simply cannot 'hear' it. During those times I really need either quiet, or soothing or amusing conversation - I cannot take another teaspoon of angst.

It is rare though that I am not drawn first to the serious topic, conversation, or opportunity - I thoroughly enjoy people who can passionately bat things around and appreciate the sport of it, and I've been fortunate to have attracted friends who enjoy the same.

I generally find myself impatient with 'girl talk'... fashion, shoes, kids... but enjoy playful conversations or flirty ones... lightness is not always boring - just too often. I find that I'm pretty good at light and silly, and that I enjoy it in the right mood, but it doesn't challenge me.. then again, that's not what it's for.. it's more about 'calm' or 'relaxed', or just 'pleasant' - after spending years mired in the 'intense', I find I really enjoy a dip in the lite now and then(but always lite with a hint of an edge). *s* -v


AstirRelicLatah replies on 9/10/2006 6:36 pm:
I guess "girl talk" could be equated with locker room talk...Not very useful but it surely does fill up the time. I also think to have a deep conversation you have to be in a place for the energy that those conversations take. I find that it takes a lot to stay "present" during many conversations I have. With some people I'm just not willing to spend the energy. As always, though provoking and interesting. Thanks.

rm_shannee2006 52F
3355 posts
9/9/2006 11:32 pm

I enjoy the light conversations that hold sensuality in them between the people I spend time with. I'm not talking about sex necessarily. I mean enjoying the experience of living with them. Enjoying talking about music for instance. There's nothing earth shattering about that...but it's connective and joyful. I love deep conversation. The kind that makes all of my being work hard at the intimacy and intellectual challenge of understand each other. That's good stuff. I cherish the friends that I can do both with. Mostly because I am mulling over the stuff of the deeper conversation and I'm giving myself a rest so I'm ready for the next deep conversation with them. That's a good balance for me. Nice post my friend. very nice.

Yup...this juiciness is from me....

S


AstirRelicLatah replies on 9/10/2006 6:39 pm:
Playful bantering is certainly a lot of fun. It also can have some nice erotic undertones to it. I love music as much as anyone I know. And, there are some people who talk about this topic with me and I want to scream...I guess there are intelligent ways to talk about things and really stupid ways...I'm probably a bit of a snob, but I don't like conversation when there isn't an intelligent bent to it. Thanks for helping me figure out this distinction....

druidrocker 62F

9/10/2006 4:09 pm

I am not going to break the chain here - either / or - depends on who the conversation is with and / or what about.

Deep conversation that gives me the opportunity to share knowledge and conviction and to gain additional knowledge or insight is the fertilizer of life.

Social patter designed to make people comfortable in a superficial social setting is the grease that keeps polite society in motion.

Having to sit and listen to some fuck-twit grandstand about something they really do not have a clue about just so they can make themselves the center of attraction for their 15 minutes of fame - well - I guess that is where the fertilizer comes from.

Then there are the times when I just sit and listen and encourage the person I am with to speak - because they have had wonderful experiences that I have not and most likely never will - I get to live vicariously through them and what a great way to see the world.

Here is another thought - I get accused of looking too intensely at people when speaking to them or listening - I am confused by that - I thought it was showing interest when you are actually looking at the person you speak with - does that ever happen to you - do you look people in the face and even - gasp - their eyes - when speaking and/or listening ?


AstirRelicLatah replies on 9/10/2006 6:41 pm:
An wonderful response...thanks. I also get accused for looking through people and not at them. I think a lot of times people believe I'm seeing things in them that they are not comfortable having others know. That might be what is also going on for you. Fuck twit....LOL what a great term. That fits right up there with shit for brains and dumb as a box of rocks....I might just have to use that sometime. BTW, I love your new picture...much better. I actually get a sense of you.

catkit13 66F

9/10/2006 5:05 pm

i do enjoy the deep conversations, where each of us can share the thoughts and ideas that make up part of who we are . . . tho, you're right, of course, it doesn't happen nearly often enough
oddly (or maybe not), i've had some of these wonderful exchanges right here on this blog, because i've allowed myself the freedom to express myself in ways that i might not allow in a face-to-face
and i always enjoy your posts, you know


AstirRelicLatah replies on 9/10/2006 6:44 pm:
There certainly is an element of risk in having a deep conversation. We are often putting ourselves on the line. I'm very fortunate in that I have these deep conversations on a regular basis. People who make it in my inner circle have these conversations all of the time. You are correct that this site has given me the opportunity to expand the deep conversations that I crave and enjoy.

Awww, I'm blushing...I enjoy having you come by and post...and I enjoy your blog also...I have from the very first time I read anything by you. Thanks for hanging out....it's fun.

Mermaidslut 49F

9/11/2006 6:15 pm

I call it tongue tied when it comes to trying to get small talk or banter out of me. Intense, and rapid fire fast.. or just listening. That is me.


AstirRelicLatah replies on 9/12/2006 7:35 am:
Yea, I would expect a conversation with you could be very intense. Probably very interesting also. thanks for stopping by.

rm_shannee2006 52F
3355 posts
9/11/2006 6:50 pm

My God you get some terrific comments on your blog Skier!

Druidrocker, I know exactly what you mean about people being uncomfortable with your gaze being intense. I have people react that way toward me. Actually. Sometimes I am looking right through to their center. That naturally leaves people feeling vulnerable...but it's based more in insecurity. I rarely judge what I see in someone. I simply observe and listen when I'm doing that. I'm learning.

Honni...you are one of the most eloquent women I have ever had the pleasure of meeting. Your vision of a conversational shapeshifter is wonderful. I am going to hang on to that thought.

Waves hi to ana...

Yup...this juiciness is from me....

S


AstirRelicLatah replies on 9/12/2006 7:36 am:
I do get some terrific comments. I appreciate them and they help me get more clarity around my subject. Thanks for noticing.

rm_aWench4U 61M/61F
741 posts
9/11/2006 11:02 pm

Skier,

I love your posts, but admit that sometimes I feel like I've gotten in over my head. I think this is partly due the topic you're writing on somedays--an unfamiliar one to me. Other days, I'll admit I just don't have it together enough to think as deep as is required to "get it." Then there are a few days when I am simply too lazy to force myself to think deeply. (That was humbling to admit, but it's good to be humbled, isn't it?)

Anyway, I do enjoy having deep conversations when the person, time and place all come together. They are much more satisfying than the "sound bites" I often settle for. I typically find myself listening far more than speaking in such conversations because I am convinced that I cannot learn anything when I am doing the talking.

Normally I'm a very patient person, but I've learned I have no patience for those who want to sound like they're deep, but are clearly just restating the sound bites they've heard. It quickly becomes clear they have not truly digested the issue and therefore cannot offer an original thought, or even an honest, well-thought-out opinion. Who was it that said, "I'd rather keep quite and be thought a fool, than open my mouth and remove all doubt."? Anyway, those are some words I try to live by.

As always, another thought provoking post--and yes, I will try to force myself to think deeply each day! **Smile**

Remember the past but do not dwell there.
Face the future where all our hopes stand.


~Angela


AstirRelicLatah replies on 9/12/2006 7:50 am:
I think the quote was an H. L. Mencken quote, but I'm not sure. Your also allowed to just play with ideas. I think often that's just as much fun as having a deep conversation. Many of us, myself included in that many of us take ourselves way too seriously. *grin* I also think you should give yourself credit for understanding more than you think you do. I for one, find your comments useful and I enjoy reading your blog.

Thanks. Skier

Become a member to create a blog