I thought I knew all the answers!  

Philosophy_N_Sex 49M/47F
1147 posts
8/18/2005 9:55 am

Last Read:
3/5/2006 9:27 pm

I thought I knew all the answers!

Song of the day: Arms Wide Open - Creed
Alternate: Teach your children well - Crosby, Stills, Nash, w/o Young

Ms HH Mzhunyhole posted an interesting letter to her grandson [post 71138]. She got a lot of flack for it, and I gave some flack as well, as I projected my own values on their situation. There were some statements I totally disagree with, which happens. I do not think she is a sicko or in any way dangerous to a kid. I projected the “strained” relationship I have with my father, and projected if he sent something like that to my kid.

Also had a nice talk with exploremore4me about love, children, uncontitional love and choices. So I guess this is the kid blog.

Our parenting style has drawn flack as well, from family and coworkers. My father is a member of the “main church of Salt Lake.” And they are not above using any technique to recruit. They know Bekka and I have a strong opinion of religion. However “grandpa” thinks they can recruit the children, because it is for “their own good.” They tried to sneak them into getting baptized under the guise of a “pic nic.” A quick stop at the church then off to a pic nic, luckily a younger cousin slipped up the real plan, so the kids are never alone with grandpa.

Luckily Bekka and I are very much on the same page when it comes to parenting, which makes our lives a lot easier.

I used to think I was the greatest parent ever, and then I had children.

We get flack on how we raise our kids because we do not spank, and we do pay for grades. We do show there are consequences for actions, teach how choices affect others and self and we follow through with consequences. The kids hate follow through, they think we forgot, then the look when we say, “Remember what we talked about before.”

We consider school a “job” and pay accordingly. Why not, a job well done is rewarded with pay and praise. “They” say that paying for grades removes the proper motivation and intrinsic rewards. Poppy cock! An A will almost always bring a deep sense of satisfaction. We do give a lot of positive feedback, he gets to call grandma and say he got A’s, and then he gets his bonus pay. When he has a job and “lands the big account” will he not also be rewarded with pay? Both internal and external rewards are presented, is that not the goal?

I am shocked how many people go nuts when we say we do not spank our kids. They gasp and say you have to have discipline! We have a lot of discipline, we are actually strict parents, and expect a lot. We look at punishment as results of actions, the result of “bad choices”. You have to fix what was wrong, and why the choice to misbehave was made. If the child spills milk, you need to get rags and such to clean it up, some cleaner to stop it from being sticky, and an apology to everyone for interrupting the meal. Then things are back to status quo, move on. When you spank the child, the milk is still all over the floor.

Or when a tantrum is thrown we say you can be angry, but the rest of us do not need this attitude, please go to your room until you feel able to join us again. Often it is, “do you need us to help you to your room?” Also a lot of “we think you need to go chill out for five more minutes, you are not in a social mood yet.” We do believe you may not be able to choose your feelings, but you damn well choose your actions, and misbehaving tantrums are a choice. I do think to myself if I believed in spanking this would be easier! But my ability to spank will not always be there, but the children’s ability to think through situations will last a lifetime.

We also use an allowance chart, good behavior rewarded, bad behavior is negative. We give him ten one dollar bills, then we discuss each “mishap” that removed money, and he has to pay back for each misdeed. We do not allow him to just say ok I owe four here you go. The impact of discussion of why he chose to misbehave is more effective than any spanking. Saying why he chooses to misbehave one by one has really resulted in a polite and considerate young man.

When reading the memoirs of Jewish people in NAZI camps, how they would say and do thing to not be beaten and tortured. They did not believe any of what they told the Nazi’s, they wanted to avoid pain. As abused children ourselves, Bekka and I only learned to dodge and hate our parents, not see them as any positive influence, what could they teach us other that to hate and hit? We know there are better ways to teach kids how to be adults, hitting is not one of them.

Relatives have told us that if they see our kid(s) doing something wrong they will spank! We have warned members of my father’s side of the family that we will consider it assault, and treat is as such. Spank my kids I will spank you! So far nobody has challenged that. I love the look we get when we tell others “ We do not resort to torture as a means of child rearing.” HAHAHA, then they say it is not torture, but spanking passes all the criteria tests of torture.

Another example is little sister was walking up and kicking people. We would correct with stern words that is not what people do. We discovered that when she kicked her brother, he would laugh, then chase her and play with her. AH-Ha, we found the culprit. So we explained to him how she was associating kicking with something fun, and we need his help to have her stop. So next time she walked up and kicked him, he did as asked, and said “no kicking it hurts,” and turned his head and ignored her. When she stopped crying he followed our advice nicely and asked if she wanted to play. Then he played with her. So now she walks up and says, “play?” (In a cute toddler voice) He feels very proud of himself that he taught his sister to stop kicking, and to get attention by asking.

We are tour guides, we teach skills, to kids. Coping skills, social skills, and how one choice does not lead to one reaction, but many. Teaching how to cope is far superior to spanking. How can a kid trust us if they are more concern with being hit, then with learning about life. When I would wake up to the old man smacking me around why would I go to him for advice. I do not condemn spankers, or lecture them, just it is not going to happen in our house. I do not lecture them, and do not wish to be lectured about it.

We are open when questions of sexuality, we know it is a normal part of life, and a new set of choices that will have to be made. Sex is not wrong or dirty it is good or bad dependent on the circumstances. Again making the best choice possible “usually” leads to the most fulfilling sex life, and well life in general.

We are very humbled by child rearing, and often rather exhausted. I hope we are on the right path, but a parent didn’t write all that PHD textbook stuff! The laboratory of life does not have the controlled conditions of a thesis report! If we have controlled chaos with the kids we consider it good, much like a controlled airplane crash! Hahahaha.

Have a great day!

patsam69 51M/51F

8/18/2005 12:29 pm

OH MY!! I think we are the same people!! LOL. I do not hit my kids either. Don't believe in it. It was extremely hard when my oldest was younger. I will admit...I did hit him. Every time I did...it hurt him and me...I would cry with him. It took me a while but I stopped. See, I was brought up being hit. I think it is engrained in you somehow. But I knew it was wrong, and took action to stop. Luckily, my husband was never hit. He was just yelled at, so he is a yeller, which is not a totally bad thing, as he does not yell often.
No one in my family would ever hit my children. My mom knows how I feel, and I think she has outgrown the hitting thing. I think it is terrible that your family wants to spank your kids. It is not their choice, it is yours. Read any child expert these days, and they say hitting is only detrimental.

I also pay my kids for good grades. An A is 2 dollars...B 1 dollar ...C nothing...D you owe me a dollar ...F, we dont even discuss cause it better not happen! The kids love report card time and strive for good grades...I have 2 honor roll students, and a 1st grader that can't wait to get his first A. I know my sister thinks I am hard on the kids...But I try to teach them that there are other people in the world, and your actions have consequences on others. I am complimented all of the time by strangers in restaurants on how well behaved my kids are. Teachers at school ask me to request them for my younger ones becasue their older brother is so well behaved and has a good personality. This is a great compliment to me. I feel I am doing the best I can to raise my kids. You do the same...don't let others tell you what is best. It sounds to me like you are doing great!!!

Philosophy_N_Sex 49M/47F

8/18/2005 12:38 pm

thank you for a lovely comment from such a lovely person.

Yes often toddlers can not yet "negotiate" so a draconian method gets the attention. We do threaten with "spanking offenses" but the threat was always enough. He once ran out in the street, we went straight home no ice cream, it worked.

thanks for stopping by Lady Jezebelle

bigredeatsbush 51M/50F

8/18/2005 3:48 pm

This should get a big response. (Not as much as Mzhuny)

As for me and mine, I have many ideas, but usually do not "impose" them on other parents. My children have been raised between 2 houses with quite different styles, so I can't really say what works based on experience. I know that I spanked my kids a few times when they were little, and now the threat is enough. I believe in "natural consequences" for punishment, meaning the punishment fit the crime (like your milk). I'm a lot mellower now, but I have the children that were raised by a young excitable guy. So, it makes for interesting times. My kids are too much like me! Usually we raise our children as we have been raised, but sometimes we raise our children IN SPITE of how we were raised. I'm sure the children of PNS will be fine capable adults someday.

As for your father - I can quote a few scriptures that explains that he is wrong for what he has done... But not here, not now... Fix the man and the world falls into place! Ever heard that one?

ExploreMore4Me 59F

8/18/2005 4:19 pm

Dear P&S.... You & Bekka have much to be proud of. Teaching your children the POWER of choice is perhaps one of the most greatest gifts you can bestow upon a child. Assisting them to understand "consequence as a result of choice" goes beyond necessity. It is one of the corner stones of mental, emotional, psychological and spiritual stability & sound health. Physical acts of violence has its power only in the moment of pain. When I child realizes freedom in the POWER of choice, they begin to define themselves.

Brilliant Post!

Hugs & Kisses My Friend!


Bellefourchelove 62M

8/18/2005 4:59 pm

Sounds to me like you're doing a great job in raising your children. My best guess is that they're well behaved and secure.

Philosophy_N_Sex 49M/47F

8/18/2005 9:12 pm

Pat & Sam

Wow if you lived closer we would get along great, wow! I am very glad you broek the cycle of abuse, and are a better person, and live in a hosue with better people because of your strength to choose not to be an abusive hitter. You are a commendable wise woman, I am sure your family is very proud to have you with them.

We too get complimetns from otehrs about the well mannored children, it is so nice when others say that, we make sure the kids know they were complimented.

Thank you for stopping by as always! and Yummy those life ideals!

Philosophy_N_Sex 49M/47F

8/18/2005 9:15 pm


THat is rough the split house rasinign thing, that is a huge can of worms in it's self. Luckily kids are very adaptable. But I am sure you get "annoyed?" at the other side when they go "stuff" that is contrary to what you hope for.

You aoffer a consistent loving home for your kids to thrive in, so in the long run kids do know who they can trust and turn to!

hope your day is going well!

Philosophy_N_Sex 49M/47F

8/18/2005 9:21 pm

Hello EM4M my friend!

Funny how I for the most part approach coaching adults and coaching kids the same, the level of understanding life is a bit different is all. Kids are ofen more open to learning, will explore a point of view with out predjice (sp), and just love life.

With adults it seems adults forget how to "play" they would never walk barefoot in the mud and play squish mud between toes. or run and jump for no reason at all. it is why I am good with kids, I am still one myself

The power of choice is truely the power of the universe. that is why bullies, government, anyone tryign to gain power, the first thign they do is limit choice. How right you are

always enjoy your feedback! thank you for being you!

Philosophy_N_Sex 49M/47F

8/18/2005 9:22 pm

hi thanks fro stopping by, I love visiting your area, nice people, and ALOT of histroy to explore! I almost took a job in your area, very cool place to live.
take care!

FunandFrisky79 41M/37F

8/18/2005 10:06 pm

P&S- After reading this post, I'd say you two are excellent parents! And, I commend you on your philosophy & skills when it comes to child rearing!

Being a parent is the hardest job you will ever have, and the two of you sound like professionals! I just hope I will be half the parent you are! Best of luck with the teenage years, my friend! I'm sure you will do great! Kisses!


patsam69 51M/51F

8/19/2005 6:31 am

LOL...you like that Yummy comment Huh?? too funny!

Philosophy_N_Sex 49M/47F

8/19/2005 10:07 am

Hello F&F-
thank you again for being so kind to little ole me Yes parenting is a tough job, but so far so good.

I bet you will be a terrific parent! you are patient, stable, kind and loving, you will excel!

Plus if you have a boy when he is a teen you will be the "hot mom" you will think they come to your house to drink lemonaide (evil laughter)

hope you are doing well today
hugz and stuff

Philosophy_N_Sex 49M/47F

8/19/2005 10:08 am

Hey Sam

thanks for toleratign my typos I am a horrid typer.

yes the yummy was very funny, and I am always up fro a cheap laugh

FunandFrisky79 41M/37F

8/19/2005 4:59 pm

Awww, thanks P&S! You're too sweet!

Kisses to you!


Philosophy_N_Sex 49M/47F

8/19/2005 8:26 pm

Awwww blush

Fallic40 53M
1858 posts
8/21/2005 9:18 pm

Hi there,

I am glad to see that you regard school as a job for your children. It is mind boggling, to me, that parents who often work very hard themselves cannot remember back to when they were in school and remember how tired they were and how hard the work was. My girls get paid for good grades, are allowed to trade chores in if they have a lot of homework, and get given "mental health days" when they are run down or stressed out: just the same as a working adult.

I have two girls and they have never been spanked. I am sure that raising girls presents different challenges than raising boys, but my daughters are polite and respectful of their parents, their friends and themselves. I have never felt compelled to use violence on them to make a point. All it would establish is that I am bigger and stronger. And like with you, there is a well established littany of expectations and consequences.

My ex-wife and I decided a long time ago that we were not interested in raising children in the same manner as our parents. We wanted our girls to not be the "seen and not heard" type of child. We wanted articulate, interested, interesting daughters who would be a joyful addtion to the world. From what I have seen so far, we are succeeding and, most important, so are they.

Philosophy_N_Sex 49M/47F

8/24/2005 1:31 pm

Yes school offers many challenges. It is a job, and often kids take on too much.
I am glad you also do not think spanking is effective, as you said it only shows "might makes right."
Thanks for stopping by
take care always

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