Guilty or not...  

ByteChaser2 52M
2834 posts
11/14/2005 10:35 am

Last Read:
3/5/2006 9:27 pm

Guilty or not...


So... I've been mulling this one over for a while now. See, over the course of about three months or so, I've read quite a few blog posts that touch on the concepts of spousal infidelity - What would you do if... Is it really cheating... and so on.

What I suppose it all comes down to, if I'm reading the questions correctly, "Am I guilty or innocent?"

Holy crap but this one's going to be rough - kind of like when, just before the anesthesia sets in, you hear the surgeon say "Holy shit... Are you sure?" and that black, whole lot of nothingness curtain closes across your eyes...

Yuh... Sweet dreams!

So anyway, lets talk about guilt and innocence - as it may or *may not* apply to many of us here.

I have this theory about the concepts of guilt, innocence and religion. As history is my guide, I contend that we can thank many organized religions, and most recently Christianity for the mess many of us make of our own lives. And further, it's the church's method of exercising it's authority over the masses - "holding the man down" as it were.

See, centuries ago, the masses were lead not so much by politics as they were by religion. Popes, bishops and other clerical leaders, in order to maintain authority - and a steady income I'm sure - had to have an indisputable set of restrictions. Enter the Ten Commandments.

Now, I'm all for these Commandments - as a framework. Even if one decides they don't believe in God(s) or religion, these basic laws are certainly a framework for good and decent social order. They're common sense. Well, most of them anyway...

By way of example, take the first three - Paraphrased: There is one God, don't speak badly of this God and worship this God on *Saturday* - the Jewish Sabbath - under penalty of eternal damnation in hell. In other words, In order for the religious leader to exercise complete control of the population, they will ONLY have one God, with the religious leader as the "go-between". They will not bad mouth this God or it's representative and further, they will meet with this representative weekly.

From a political standpoint, these three require all to follow (one) God, through the defined church or religious leader. Unify the masses by focussing them on a single goal. Politically, a smart move...

Honor thy father and mother... the 4th. Know where this one came from? Right... some dad had teenagers. And anyone who's ever been a teenager knows about that rebellious period. Well, this dad couldn't exercise his parental authority so... yup... scare tactics. "Look here son, either you respect me and your mom or God is gonna send you to hell"...

e.g., "Be good or the monster in the closet will get you!"

Then we have the no stealing, killing, lieing and coveting laws... The no stealing, lieing and coveting (goods) ones I can get both arms around. 100% agreement there. The no killing one I have a philosophical issue with - After all... there's just some folks out there that NEED killing.

But lets look at where these may have come from shall we? Hmmm... ok, someone had his goats stolen. No stealing... Someone was talking smack about this guys tent... No coveting... Someone had his brother knifed down in a street somewhere. No killing. Though oddly, killing is sanctioned and permitted under some religious circumstances. Go figure... No lieing... Probably goes hand in hand with the smack talking one. Gossip and such.

Now we get to the ones that seem to produce so much discord around here. Adultery and thy neighbors wife. Have you figured it out yet? Yep... someone ran off with this guys wife - and with her went the wealth and land and goats... And just who is gonna wash my loin cloth?

Coincidentally, I'm secretly hoping there's some rich guy out there coveting the Battle-Axe. I'd even pack her stuff and rent a uhaul.

Anyway, just to come back to the topic at hand... Guilty or not. Perhaps more appropriately, is it moral for me to want to bone the neighbor's wife and further, is it moral for me to bone the neighbors wife while I'm married?

Keep in mind now that when these commandments were purportedly etched into the tablets by "the finger of God", women (wives and daughters) were considered property. They were owned by the husband/father. For all intents and purposes, the daughters were sold to another family's sons... Wives were stoned to death for the most insignificant infractions - legally. There's some serious moral implications here right?

Since we, as a general world population (exceptions noted of course), figured out that aside from plumbing and emotional vagaries, men and women are essentially the same and property to neither, the need to threaten another man with the smoldering pits of damnation for wanting to screw another guys wife are simply out of fashion - totally unnecessary. Which basically makes adultery or coveting another mans wife an outdated concept. Well, aside from the obvious lack of respect I suppose.

Don't get me wrong. I'm a firm believer in monogamy. I do believe there's a woman out there who I'll bond with exclusively. Or maybe not... point is though, for ME, meeting and building relationships with women - or even just to have sex with, regardless of marital status - is not a moral issue... right now. Check back in a week... I may have changed my mind by then

Synn74 42F
1206 posts
11/14/2005 12:07 pm

WOW Byte very insightful today

have you seen this blog recently [142264] if not you should



I welcome you to the House of Syn...


Synn74 42F
1206 posts
11/14/2005 12:10 pm

grrrr Men of blogland who make me weak



I welcome you to the House of Syn...


rm_sj365 55F
2414 posts
11/15/2005 5:53 am

ok, only because you know how much I adore you am I going to be brutally honest here... and because I know you have the power of delete & I'm ok with that if you do.
that said...

GOOD lord thats a lot of blather up there just to sort out how you feel about "thy neighbors wife", guilt and morality.

yeah blather..i said blather.

my point (and i do have one) is this: we can sit around all the live long day & disect & analyze how we feel about what we do that is in disharmony with rules or society, but that isnt real guilt. Most of us (yeah YOU too)have no trouble doing whatever we do to thumb our noses at convention & do so happily.

we cannot even begin to examine what we really do...the true impact our actions have on a faceless "society" until we are able to examine what our actions do to the faces of individuals...the individuals we are closest to.

guilt isnt about how WE feel about what we do... we have justification & logic & denial and a host of other ways to cope with & "control" how we feel.

guilt is about chaos. things we cannot control. gawd we hate things we cannot control. guilt is about having to weigh OUR actions against OTHER peoples feelings...feelings WE dont control. its about the chaos of taking action without controlling outcomes..the randomness of that frightens & frustrates us and sometimes keeps us standing still.

but then... maybe we should to stand still...sometimes.


ByteChaser2 52M

11/15/2005 8:22 am

Hey Synn - I don't know about insightful... Maybe just a little extrospective...


ByteChaser2 52M

11/15/2005 8:24 am

Oh, and thanks hun! I'm blushing


ByteChaser2 52M

11/15/2005 8:24 am

You do that Katey, I'll wait


ByteChaser2 52M

11/15/2005 9:10 am

sj - I KNEW I could count ya!

Blather? Is a closely held belief now blather? I disagree... I stand firm that it's not my inability to reconcile my own behavior with the perceptions of - and effects on - others. I refuse to feel guilt or remorse simply because a "christian" society see's the world in a 10 shade grey scale - with 7 "deadly" colors appended.

My palette is far more diverse than that...

It's an indisputable fact that since about the third century AD, religious societies (christianity specifically) has used the "monster in the closet" tactic to hold to authority and that the edited version of christianity has been used as justification to not just "spread the word", but to eliminate the competition through wholesale slaughter. Entire societies have been nearly become extinct for the sake of some syphalis crazed cleric or anothers need to exercise ultimate power over the masses... And the masses blithely following like lambs to the slaughter...

Ok, so my point (Yep, I got one too) is that, in deference to you on this one point, I am not in a state of chaos trying to untangle the morality of "doing" the neighbors wife. I'm actually quite well and stable with it - There is no moral issue in my opinion - I honestly couldn't care less what anyone else thinks of my version of morality on this issue as it realistically has no affect on others beyond their perception of me as applied to their 10 shade grey scale belief model.

After all, if I cared, I would have exercised my power of delete right? Or better, wouldn't have posted this at all for fear of waking the dragon...

I'm sure we'll have much more and spirited discussion on this and I can barely wait! XX


papyrina 51F
21133 posts
11/15/2005 12:29 pm

i'm guilty of being unfaithfully,do i feel guilty no way no how the only time i would feel that is if he found out and for the pain i would cause him,then i would feel guilty for that,not what i'm doing,a basic cow i am really

if your interested in a euro bloggers meet in Holland in the spring go to [post 143099] and sign up


I'm a

and
i'm here to stay


ByteChaser2 52M

11/15/2005 1:23 pm

Hey papy! I wouldn't expect you (or anyone for that matter) to be guilty about it. I wonder though, if so many have trouble with it simply becasue they don't understand why they do it... or perhaps more accurately, why they have no valid need of guilt as it may apply to marital infidelities.


rm_sj365 55F
2414 posts
11/15/2005 3:51 pm

i knew you knew you could count on me! lol

"I honestly couldn't care less what anyone else thinks of my version of morality "....yes but do you care what they FEEL about it?

lalalala
*sj , skipping off*


bella_ 47F
4030 posts
11/15/2005 7:25 pm

I suppose everyone has different opinions on this and they are all right. I suppose the best thing were to be to find another that holds the same ideals as you do..as we all do.


ByteChaser2 52M

11/16/2005 7:33 am

sj - And I knew that you knew that I... oh forget it...

Ok, So you want to know if I care about my own infidelities make others feel... I suppose I could try to analyze how any of the hundreds of people I know (or the hundreds more who I don't *yet* know) feel about my infidelities. Hell, I sleep at night, I've got the time to spend on it...

Seriously though, I simply don't have the will and patience to spend that much time and energy trying and figure out the various and subtly different feelings everyone has. Whats more, I've spent an inordinate amount of time and effort finding me in my tangled up rats nest of a person. I'm not changing anything now that I'm finally unravelling it all. Besides, whats better, a man with strength and conviction or a coddling, mollifying, damp dish-rag, willing to reshape the very core of himself based on how someone else feels about him?

Your turn hun! XXX


ByteChaser2 52M

11/16/2005 7:42 am

Ciao Bella - Your doubtless right on that. Everyone has an opinion but frankly, I doubt there are many who are of the exact same opinion. I actually have met another with very similar opinions on this very topic. Similar, but not the same... One of us was unwilling or unable to accept the subtle differences and as such, we remain in (however subtle and slight) opposition.

So I'd just suggest to you that the best thing isn't so much to find another with the same ideals and standards, just as close as possible. Further, once found, they BOTH accept that a little mutual compromise is necessary to solidify them both in a more common opinion.

Thanks for coming by again! XX


Lapkin4u 42F

11/16/2005 9:54 am

I agree Byte! I have taken many harsh comments by people wanting to know how I could possibly do that to someone I supposedly love. Well here is the answer! Everyone lives in a different reality shaped and formed by our environment,upbringing,social status and views of others. My reality does not include guilt for infidelity. In my reality I do what makes me happy and right now with the circumstances of my life, seeing other people (and yes sometimes having sex)is what makes me happy! One could say I am wrong but that would be what is on their 3x5 card filed in their brain, not mine. Guilt can only occur if it is listed on my 3x5 card for what marriage or commitment mean to me. It is different for everyone. Lots of people have successful marriages where their relationships are open, and they see other people on a regular basis. If I am supposed to feel guilty for "cheating" than my mate should feel guilty for verbally abusing me, trying to control me and not giving me what I need emotionally but, that isn't my call to make, those are my feelings based on what my card says, not his. His says something entirely different. I can not impose my feelings about a given situation on him anymore than he can impose his feelings on me.

Great post!


ByteChaser2 52M

11/16/2005 10:25 am

Mental 3x5's - that's a good one. I used to have a mental rolodex system but somewhere along the line, someone snatched all the cards out and tossed em in the trash...

Ergo, I'm making new ones as I continue on


Become a member to create a blog